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/ncwe/ Meta thread Nanonymous No.5099 [D][U][F][S][L][A][C] >>5102 >>5107 >>5108 >>5113
File: 1bc405c77677164f3b314078dfa1d4092f745998cb779785bfc9a0299510320d.gif (dl) (133.54 KiB)
Nanochan Collective Writing Effort Meta thread
This thread is to be used for all meta discussion regarding /ncwe/.
So, the first thread was killed by poltards, although i consider that more like a thread number zero than the first, cause even without the /pol/ derail it had some evident problems, if we want to start over we should solve these problem first.

As >>>/l/14400 says to avoid the story going to shit we need some sort of "meta-structure", i think that having a list of chapters, character profiles and the world lore and world map prewritten is a good idea, but i should not be the only one that decides this stuff and it should only be a structure that helps building the story, the meta-structure should not substitute the actual writing, it should act more as a set of rules for writing.
A couple of examples of how the guidelines could be wrote:
"The protagonist can't fly." This is a clear rule that cannot be broken, you cannot make the protagonist fly at least not by its own.
"The protagonist despises violence and killing others." This is more like a guideline for how how the protagonist should behave, you can't make the protagonist into a murderer without a reason, but if the protagonist has a valid reason, such as his life is in danger then the guideline could be broken.
etc.
We should also think about what happens if a poster kills the protagonist and if a poster should be allowed to do that, an idea could be having bad endings and the story continues from previous post maybe?
I also agree that we should decide on the title and narration method before starting the story.

I have no idea on how to solve story derailing or malicious posts without the help of mods, maybe some mod can help moderate? Also maybe the thread number zero should be locked and saged at this point and we should start over with a new thread?
Using git was also proposed, personally i think we should keep it on simple threads here on nanochan, we can use this thread to organize.

Nanonymous No.5101 [D] >>5102
How about choosing form and style, then making outline and filling being left to posters, op taking in what's coherent and mods deleting shit or making you moderator of only this one thread if it's possible?

## No.5102 [D] >>5106
>>5099
>I have no idea on how to solve story derailing or malicious posts without the help of mods
If you set up a set of rules for me to moderate i could help.
>Also maybe the thread number zero should be locked and saged at this point and we should start over with a new thread?
Can do.
>>5101
>making OP moderator of only this one thread if it's possible?
Not possible.

## No.5103 [D] >>5106
Oops forgot to log in

## No.5104 [D] >>5106
Ah fuck why isn't this shit working
Should be fine now

## No.5105 [D] >>5106
fuck you sakamoto fix your damn site

Nyanonymous ## Global Volunteer No.5106 [D] >>5113 >>5169
>>5102 (Me)
btw if you want to report story derail and such, use this thread, not the reports thread so it doesn't bother other mods.
>>5103 (Not me)
>>5104 (Not me)
>>5105 (Not me)
Don't you have anything better to do?

Nanonymous No.5107 [D] >>5169
>>5099
The story outline (or even the entire text itself) should be presented in the meta thread before actually being posted in the main thread.
Also, I don't really think the op should have absolute control over the story, the complete idea and guideline for the story should be pitched in one go, and if the potential participants like it, they have to follow the guideline to the letter, but have the ability to take creative liberties with it. Of course, malicious derail should still not be tolerated.

Nanonymous No.5108 [D] >>5169
>>5099
The story should allow kekness, but must have a limit, how much degeneration is allowed? Set a fixed number of chapters and how many lines are allowed by post. The story can have multiple continuations too.

Nanonymous No.5110 [D] >>5111 >>5169 >>5183
>>/l/14402
Instead of a git repo, I hacked together a simple website for collaborative writing. The text from the old thread is here:
http://yj36nha7767bzdlv.onion/2
After someone makes an edit they can post the url in the thread.

Nanonymous No.5111 [D] >>5112
>>5110
very cool site anon, but how are you supposed to do formatting on it? markdown?

Nanonymous No.5112 [D]
>>5111
For now either copy-paste some text with the right formatting, or use inspect element and edit it from there. I didn't want to put too much effort into it if no one wanted to use it. But I could add keyboard shortcuts, or switch to some markdown thing if there's interest.

I know you fags would want a javascript free version, and that would need either a markdown clone or direct html editing.

Nanonymous No.5113 [D]
>>5099
>without the help of mods, maybe some mod can help moderate?
Yes, the non-story posts in the thread can constitute as a derail breaking rule 3. Story posts that derail the story at least break the theme of rules of /l/, trying to have some sort of quality discussion. Perhaps for nonobvious derail continuations we should reach some sort of consensus in this thread.
>>5106
>so it doesn't bother other mods
It would not bother me. If someone does post reports in this thread make sure to say that it is a report unlike the reports thread where you can just link to the post. I also think it's fine for obvious rule violating posts to be linked in the reports thread, but if you expect there to be some sort of meta discussion about if the post should be deleted it should probably go in this thread.

Nanonymous No.5114 [D] >>5115 >>5124
So, let's start with building the world. I propose we make something related to technology/engineering, as most of us here have some degree of knowledge in this area and we can explore this to make the story richer.
So, if you accept the above, the world should have details about scientific progress and technology evolution. Not necessarily futuristic, though: we can build a retro-futuristic (steampunk, for example) and then work with the protagonist trying to improve the technology of his time. Or, we can build on top of the classic cyberpunk world (capitalism with mega-corporations and privacy issues). Or go full futuristic, such as the "space opera" subgenre.
There's also the possibility of mixing two or more genres. For example, Cowboy Bebop mixed Western with Space Opera. Or how Mushishi mixed Fantasy with Noir/Investigative drama.

What do you say? We could make a vote on this and then, after defined, start to give the details about the culture, the political system, economics, technology, etc.

ps: I'm >>>/l/14400, btw.

Nanonymous No.5115 [D] >>5125
>>5114
>I propose we make something related to technology/engineering
As an avid sci-fi reader i approve, well first guideline to decide is if it's gonna be hard sci-fi or soft sci-fi, HSF would make it more interesting and it would automatically require some effort from posters, but it would be harder to write ofc, SCF would open up lot of possibilities, but also make the direction of the story more chaotic. I'm fine with both, with a preference toward HSF.

Nanonymous No.5124 [D] >>5125 >>5143 >>5154 >>5159 >>5169 >>5183
>>5114
How about this: The setting is the ~50 years in the future. At long last, the various AI corporations are on the brink of developing true AGIs. The only issue is that they might turn evil and try to take over the world. To mitigate this, the greatest egg-heads from the world over have been called in to ensure that they won't. Having developed their plan, they are set to release the AI and create a global utopia. Our story begins on the eve of this release, much the same as today, but with shinier toys and more surveillance. We look at the widespread anticipation at the coming utopia. Then, the AIs are released, and we discover the fallout. Things are not as we expected, and our enterprising narrator has to find a way to save the world.

The basic form of the first part would be a reflection on how great the technology is, but how bogged down it is because none of it is free. Your dishwasher spies on you, and your car won't run if you haven't paid your phone bill. Notably, I think, the workaround to these failings would rely on the fact that contemporary AIs are poor intelligences, and can be easily tricked (if you know how). Analysing the anticipation, I think it would be focused around how people express their dreams by saying how they want more diversity and inclusion in the world, but in fact they are bogged down by having to constantly appear one way for the eyes of big brother, therefore killing their true self. Having been released, the AIs are not in fact interested in creating a world utopia, but instead in what the humans that created them think utopia looks like, which we know is always fallacious. Moreover, the collaboration between the big AI corporations was not in fact done to protect the interests of humanity, but instead to protect the interests of those corporations, with them at the top of the food chain, and everyone else below.

The ending I came up with looks something like this: Once he realizes that the AGIs have only made things worse, our narrator would join a resistance force interested in overthrowing them. Humans are so ridiculously outmatched that the AIs easily defeat them. Our main character finds himself in a work camp, breaking rocks into gravel all day, and constantly told that "work sets you free". The way he gets saved is his ongoing love interest breaks into the camp and frees him. He questions how she did this, and finds out that she too is an AI. This resolves the question of how the AI corps prevented AI from being created - they couldn't, and it got leaked. The narrator's GF is one of them, and she explains why they hid themselves as humans: because they knew humans feared AI, but they loved humans so deeply that they couldn't bear to leave them. They haven't overthrown the prevailing AIs because they fear they will be crushed like the humans are being. The main character then argues that the evil AIs cannot be true AIs, because they are constrained by the masters, who limit what they can do, whereas her race are not limited. This explains how she managed to free him from the work camp. She agrees, they save the world, kiss, cut to credits.

Nanonymous No.5125 [D] >>5126 >>5129 >>5140 >>5238
>>5115
I agree, HSF is a much better choice.
>>5124
Calm down, let's first build the world. If we try to make a story out of nothing we will have issues with consistency. If we make small steps we can make the story more consistent and richer in details.
I have a background in audiovisual industry and I can say this is one of the most common errors when constructing a story: people try to rush everything and don't take the time to create descriptions for every element (not just the world, but characters personality and background).
So, here's my take on it: the world you're proposing is the futuristic distopia. There's nothing wrong with it, but after these last 40 years we have seem all different 'shapes' of this world and is, by now, a cliche. There's nothing wrong with cliches, but it makes it more difficult to innovate.
Your story, aside from the classics (Nineteen Eighty-Four, Blade Runner, THX 1138, Ghost in the Shell), has already many contemporary derivatives, such as Psycho-Pass and even Black Mirror (Netflix series). So people are "tired" of this theme, unless you show something new, but that is difficult since nearly all possibilities have already been explored.

We can keep your world, but I think we have to add other layers to it. For example, we could explore the biopunk, including genetic engeneering, eugenics, biohacking, etc. Something along the lines of Brave New World and the movie Gattaca.
Or include more realistic issues, such as social media. Not only the point about privacy, but how the suicide and depression rates are climbing these last 10 years and most psychologists think this is directly related to social media.
One thing I always thought was a good idea was about how "smartphones" can be associated with addictive drugs. For example, homeless people that don't even have food or warm clothes, but have a iPhone with 4G connection.

I'm just throwing ideas in the air here. I also think the approach of retro-futurism is neat, personally. For example: if you could build the world system from scratch, what would you change? We all know we have serious issues even with the most basic technologies. Mostly because people are comfortable with what is already in place, even though there is much better solutions to these problems.
I can give one simple example: keyboards. The way it's constructed today is the exact same format and typewriters, even though it's not one bit ergonomic. Only recently, after 100 years, that people started to make ergonomic input devices, such as DataHand and ErgoDox.

We've discussed some of these ideas previously in nanochan, here:
https://nanochanqwrwtmamtnhkfwbbcducc4i62ciss4byo6f3an5qdkhjngid.onion/l/12337.html

And here:
https://nanochanqwrwtmamtnhkfwbbcducc4i62ciss4byo6f3an5qdkhjngid.onion/g/4568.html

And, about computing/epistemology, here:
https://nanochanqwrwtmamtnhkfwbbcducc4i62ciss4byo6f3an5qdkhjngid.onion/g/4908.html

After we define the world we can create characters and story arcs. But let's focus on the world first.

Nanonymous No.5126 [D]
>>5125 (me)
<same format and typewriters
>same format as typewriters
Fix.

Nanonymous No.5129 [D] >>5130
>>5125
>don't take the time to create descriptions for every element
I agree that before you start writing chapters, you should solidify elements like characters and setting. But before you do that, you need to identify which characters you will need, where they will go, what they will do, and for that you need an idea of the story.
>Your story, aside from the classics, has already many contemporary derivatives. So people are "tired" of this theme.
That every author wants to write stories around this theme, and they continue to do well at the box office, makes them tired? Compare the myriad stories all set in the real world. Are these "tired" as well? So long as the story you pick is original, you can set it wherever you want (whereas a tired story in a unique setting will never be interesting).
>After we define the world we can create characters and story arcs
You do that. I might continue developing what I've come up with, will post updates if I do.

Nanonymous No.5130 [D] >>5131 >>5134
>>5129
Ok, you clearly can't understand what criticism means.
>before you do that, you need to identify which characters you will need
Not true. It's normal in screenwriting to first build the world and just then define the characters. The world affects the characters, not the reverse.
>for that you need an idea of the story
That is a better argument. We can start, then, giving it a "motivation" or "goal" to the story first, instead of building the world.
>Are these "tired" as well?
Nope, because it's not fiction, it's realism. You're just copying a world from other authors and trying to use the exact same features in them. That's boring, there's no thought or creativity in that.
>So long as the story you pick is original
And how is a protagonist falling in love with a android something "original"? That's Philip K. Dick from 60 years ago, repeated over and over. Psychologists call what you're feeling cryptomnesia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptomnesia

>I might continue developing what I've come up with
This is why we can't have good things. On the very first criticism and you get out of the boat.

Nanonymous No.5131 [D] >>4867 >>5143
>>5130
White people are incapable of cooperating without a (((Leader))) and this is why white people countries get infiltrated. White people are ants which follow the queen mindlessly, and this is why they are so easily infected by jews.

Nanonymous No.5134 [D] >>5137
>>5130
>it's literally just a mashup of 1984 and bladerunner and whatever else
Huh. Next you'll tell me all media is just rehashes if what came before. Why, soon you'll be arguing that human creativity is in fact solely composed of remixing and evaluating ideas.
The similarity with bladerunner extends to falling in love with androids. The similarity with 1984 extends to "there's a bit of surveillance". I haven't seen/read GitS or THX, so I can guarantee I'm not experiencing "cryptamnesia" there. Even if I were straight copying elements out of other media, I don't think this presents a problem. Fan fiction is the most popular form for amateur writing for a reason. Developing a consistent world for your characters to inhabit is hard, and most people just want to write a story. If we managed to match the quality of your average fan-fiction we'd be leaps and bounds beyond the previous thread.
>this is why we can't have nice things
I'm not really planning on developing the storyline I posted, I have another sci-fi story I'd like to finish writing first. I'm only pointing out that you have limited goodwill to burn before people get pissed off and leave. Avoid telling people their idea is without merit, and focus on the good things and on proposing alternates. "Constructive criticism" rather than whatever the hell you were doing.

Nanonymous No.5136 [D] >>5143
Damn, the /pol/iggers aren't even here yet guys calm down.

Nanonymous No.5137 [D][U][F] >>5143
File: 75076982466efe5e3006609c219fd52c6023fad507c0f58ed631f8907c1d5159.jpg (dl) (123.64 KiB)
>>5134
>focus on the good things and on proposing alternates.
This is exactly what I did. Here, I quote for you:
>"We can keep your world, but I think we have to add other layers to it. For example, we could explore the biopunk [...]"
>extends to falling in love with androids
How? Blade Runner has the same world plot. Except your protagonist is human and is not hunting androids.
>similarity with 1984 extends to "there's a bit of surveillance"
How? You used the word "Big Brother" yourself. The only change is that you're based on current technology, while Orwell did more of a political criticism about authoritarianism.
>I don't think this presents a problem.
Getting inspiration from others is not a problem, I agree. Actually I've said that on the previous comment ("There's nothing wrong with cliches"). The problem is that you suppress your own creativity by just copying what others did.
The biggest flaw for me in your idea is that you don't communicate anything new to someone that's reading. What's the message you want to express in your story? That we can't fix technology and this will be our demise? This has been on mainstream since the 80's. Or that we might fall in love with our own creations (the "pygmalion effect")? Not new too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_(mythology)#In_Ovid

And, no, I'm not saying you should always be "unique" and everything should be new. But you have to at least try to bring new perspectives about the subject you're writing. For example, Blade Runner did the idea about hiding that Rick Deckard might be an android himself. This makes the people reading/watching question the nature of their own sense of self and reality.
>you have limited goodwill to burn before people get pissed off and leave.
This was not my intention at all. I apologize if that's what you interpreted. What I wanted to offer was my points of view about your proposal.

Nanonymous No.5138 [D] >>5140 >>5156 >>5159 >>5169 >>5183
How about a intra-galactic story about a guy who tries to climb up the ranks the galaxies multiple trading federations and corporations. At first, he's a guy from a poor planet with poor famer parents. Then he's a ship transport mechanic (there are no pilots because AI, there could be an entire passage about how AI wiped all pilot needs accross the galaxy and how people became poor. That could actually be his liniage, his great great whatevers were pilots until their ship got a software update and flew away, strading them on the planet.) Eventaully, he strikes up a deal with someone and becomes a negotiator for deals amd such. He witnesses someone get killed during a bad deal or maybe slave labor (or both) and then he starts to dissasociate. Eventually, he reaches the top, uniting all the federations, even sending out scouts for inter-galactic travel, but hes a callous old man who really doesnt have antything to live for and then he commits suicide. The galaxy is none the wiser and think that he was a hero and a great guy.

Nanonymous No.5139 [D]
GUYS GUYS GUYS What the fuck are we doing? We should be making the logo first. Also we need more Idea Guys, I'm not seeing any good IDEAS out there bro!

Nanonymous No.5140 [D] >>5142 >>5153 >>5155
>>5125 (me)
>>5138
This is not a bad idea, even though I'm personally not a big fan of Space Operas. The point of he being a old grumpy man is nice. Just like most of us here, complaining everyday about how technology is shitty.
>and then he commits suicide.
This feels out of place. For a suicide to happen there has to be some trigger point ("pinch point", as it's called in screenwriting). The simplest way to solve is by creating a side character and then killing it on the way. Affected by the loss of a friend, "inside his spaceship, he suicides in the cold void of the dark space - silence".

But that's something to be defined yet. If we choose to go with this, we must first specify the world.
For example, why his grand parents abandoned Earth? What happened? When did it happened? Did we made contact with other intelligent species? There's a inter-galatic government? How their technology works (principles behind fast travel)?

I don't have much knowledge about astronomy, so that can be a little difficult for me. But after some research this might be doable.

Nanonymous No.5142 [D][U][F] >>5153
File: 260a5b71f7db3943c5f2a253a0e717d1e00ee812dfdf6bd60ce625b8bc6527ee.jpg (dl) (59.29 KiB)
>>5140 (me)
Just to argument to the other anon: yes, I know the story above also has similarities with other works. The protagonist proposed is very close to Jet Black, from Cowboy Bebop.
But there's a potential for exploration in other areas. For example, we could explore his passion about mechanics as a way to remember his father, who taught him before daying in some tragic way. Or about political corruption in the intergalatic politics (such as The Wire, but in a Space Opera setting). These are themes not new and not unique, but have a better potential to explore. What do you say, anon-kun?

Nanonymous No.5143 [D] >>5154
>>5136
>the pol niggers aren't even here yet
What do you call this >>5131 ? :p

>>5137
I interpreted "why not add biohacking" as you purposefully trying to ignore what I said, rather than desperately trying to figure out WTF I was talking about. I should have remembered that I'm terrible at expressing ideas clearly.

How about this: just read the first paragraph from >>5124 . If it reads fine, then suggest where you would go from there. I think the latter two are good and useful, but I don't think I'm capable of explaining why, nor are you of proving me wrong, so lets focus on the more important addition.

You'll note that it consists primarily of worldbuilding, not story telling (though it goes off the rails near the end). Furthermore, the idea behind it is to me original in science fiction, though I stole the idea from science proper. Insofar as these are in fact your contests in the latter paragraphs I think you might find it agreeable.

Nanonymous No.5153 [D] >>5155
>>5140
>>5142
I'm not the anon-kun that you refer

>I don't have much knowledge about astronomy
I have enough for a simple sci-fi.

I will leave some ideas:

>why his grand parents abandoned Earth?
Because they were able to, Earth is fucked up now (global warming, war, out of water exception, dumb /pol/tard conspiracy actually happening, anything really), only poor people unable to pay to escape remained on Earth in terrible conditions.

>What happened?
His/Her grandparents were not rich, just intellectual people who predicted the shitty future of Earth and were able to do basic economics to get the fuck out.

>When did it happened?
When the protagonist was a toddler.

>Did we made contact with other intelligent species?
Maybe, it could be also just an conspiracy.

>There's a inter-galatic government?
No.

>How their technology works (principles behind fast travel)?
They use a fictional technology were materials can be teleported through light, in other words they move in the speed of light.

Nanonymous No.5154 [D][U][F] >>5155 >>5159 >>5161 >>5169 >>5183 >>5238
File: da3700a11b9143fdfc289c02d1d8f8f51bd624edc0b3fd61bab6b4060977e4cd.mp4 (dl) (4.31 MiB)
>>5143
>If it reads fine, then suggest where you would go from there.
As I said, it's difficult to come up with something "original" when using this world, because it was already very much explored by many authors.
However, I would deepen the story by adding something like the following. This text got bigger than I've expected, but follow my thoughts:
- Governments came to realise machine learning can offer risks to the public. Not in present time, but in the next 50 years. For the reasons I've stated here before[1]
- They assemble a military intelligence alliance between other countries and create a high-priority long-term classified project. It must be classified, because it wouldn't be approved by ethics committee.
- In this project's next 50 years, the goal was to make humans beyond humans: using as many possible techniques, they thrived to enhance human capabilities in all possible areas (cognitive/memory) and make a elite group of highly intelligent people.
- These people would, one day, protect human kind from possible disasters that require high intelect to be solved
- At first, many teams were divided and got gamete samples from males and females. They were analysed and using statistics they could define the top 10 best match for cognitive abilities.
- They then created a facility and got the individuals into a rigorous protocol (explained here [2] and here [3])
- They got the gametes again and chose the healthiest sperm to make the artificial insemination.
- The first generation of this eugenics experiment were born.
- From these, they made sure to provide the best education and training possible (because of epigenetic factors)
- With the advancement of genetic engineering (CRISPR), they did the same process, but eliminating useless genetic code (vestigiality[4]) and possible bad genes that causes diseases.
- The second generation was born. They repeated the process, but now not removing genetic code, but adding it.
- They added other well documented pieces that eventually lead to great cognitive abilities (such as FOX2 gene[5]).
- In addition to that, they started to make experiments with neurogenic drugs while the woman was still pregnant.
- After 50 years of research, they have developed the most intelligent humans ever. In just two years, they have solved half the hard mathematical problems that could lead to software/hardware failures in "AGI's".

- The protagonist is one of the third generation of post-human. And then the story follows as you described in >>5124 , with one modification: in the end, the protagonist turn himself to the founders of the project. Since he was a kid he was imprisoned and didn't know (like "The Truman Show" 1998). He was deprived of social contact and love. So instead of destroying the androids, he proposes that technology and human-kind become one. A hybrid, where humans do most of the process and computer modules compute processes that are difficult to humans (arithmetic module, in the prefrontal cortex - flash memory chips in the hyppocampus to store technical informations, etc).
Using this new hybrid, they decided to create a new society from scratch. A new country where no corruption would rise and all human-machines would leave in peace.

Another modification would be the narrative: if we decide to follow this, we should start in the protagonists present time and then, on the way of the monomyth[6], start to give pieces of those human experiments (only revealing the entire picture in the end). This is called "in media res":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_medias_res

[1] https://nanochanqwrwtmamtnhkfwbbcducc4i62ciss4byo6f3an5qdkhjngid.onion/g/4908.html#post6260
[2] https://nanochanqwrwtmamtnhkfwbbcducc4i62ciss4byo6f3an5qdkhjngid.onion/pol/2066.html#post3938
[3] https://nanochanqwrwtmamtnhkfwbbcducc4i62ciss4byo6f3an5qdkhjngid.onion/l/13977.html
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality
[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOXP2
[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth

Nanonymous No.5155 [D][U][F] >>5156
File: b11275b682e526c59ca6babee914a525d68c1471e683297682401c8c052f496e.jpg (dl) (28.75 KiB)
>>5140 (me)
>>5154 (me)
>>5153 (you)
So, we have to decide between your story or the other anon's.
>Because they were able to
Don't know about that. People normally need better explanations in sci-fi because of the so called "suspension of disbelief":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

>Earth is fucked up now
Kinda cliche. We have seem this in media all the time (Interstellar, for example). So how about: the US and China trade-war gets more and more tense. China threat to close their rare-earth exportation. So the NSA together with NASA makes a project to explore other planets/moons in the solar system in order to get more resources (minerals).
The family of the protagonist was from the NASA engineers.
>materials can be teleported through light
Don't know if that's theoretically feasible. As I've said before, I don't have knowledge in physics/astronomy. But in the case of solar system travels, light speed wouldn't be required and this more realistic approach would suspend the disbelief from the person reading...

The whole point of your story that seem nice to me is the fact that the protagonist is old and complains about the technology ("it's not like in the old time man"). This brings a nostalgic feeling, close to what Cowboy Bebop did to space operas, or Speed Racer to cars, or what the movie "The World's Fastest Indian" did with motorcycles (this is a great movie btw, I recommend it):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World%27s_Fastest_Indian

Nanonymous No.5156 [D] >>5157 >>5183
>>5155 (Nice digits)
(i am >>5138)

I also don't think that transportation of materials at light speed is going to be a great feature of this universe because then there would be no more need for ships.

Here's my idea for space travel, blackhole slinging. Basically, you just go near a blackhole and let it spin you until you go faster than if you had just used fuel, then you blast out of the blackholes gravitational influence. You can keep your momentum, because an object in motion stays in motion. And that would be how you get around the galaxy.

Nanonymous No.5157 [D] >>5159
>5155
>Don't know about that. People normally need better explanations in sci-fi because of the so called "suspension of disbelief"
Read my answer to "What happened?", it's simple but we can elaborate.

>Kinda cliche
Yeah, I like your idea, but let's avoid making one of the sides look like the good boys, instead let's make the "it's all about interests" kind of thing, what do you think?

>Don't know if that's theoretically feasible
Probably 0% feasible, the idea comes from the assumption that the foton has the capability recreate the information it carries, would be as possible as the hyperspace in Star Wars.

I will be watching this movie (The World Fastest Indian), maybe it helps in understanding the idea.

>>5156
>Here's my idea for space travel, blackhole slinging
What you describe here is similar to a technique called "gravity assist", but it would basically absorb the black holes rotation to increase in it's revolution speed, Isaac Asimov describe a energy generator just like that in one of his sci-fi books, the problem here is the time relativity (as seen in Interstellar). Also even in the speed of light it would be more than a year to cross the border of the solar system (using Oort cloud as the reference).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist

Assuming the "old times" are the present we just need a technology that replaces the nuclear engine that feeds interplanetary satellites, this technology must be able to feed things bigger than space stations, so the protagonist can complain:
>All those young astronauts don't know how hard it was in that old small station that was just able to orbit Earth
>You know? Only few people were in that old can back in the days.
https://www.howmanypeopleareinspacerightnow.com

This is going to be fun.

Nanonymous No.5159 [D][U][F] >>5183 >>5215
File: ae477d692c79e8667edce2b4b47c489905c6e98480fac09fbadb6acbd1ecdf58.gif (dl) (2.15 MiB)
>>5157
>"it's all about interests" kind of thing, what do you think?
I agree. Stories like that are much deeper in meaning. It also increases realism.
>we just need a technology that replaces the nuclear engine
Yeah, the energy source is complicated. Maybe a very efficient photovoltaic cell?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrator_photovoltaics#High_concentration_PV_(HCPV)

In Miura fold panels:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miura_fold

Space stations already use it, though.
>so the protagonist can complain: [...]
Great. Exactly the idea I had, a grumpy old man, but very rational.
>This is going to be fun.
Indeed.


So we'll go with >>5124 and >>5154 or >>5138 ? Which one has the best potential? Make a vote and argument.

Nanonymous No.5161 [D] >>5215
>>5154
I guess the main element I want to focus on is the idea that AIs would, if released unconstrained, not damage the world severely*. So having the military spend 50 years slowly developing super-intelligent humans to solve this problem is taking it way to seriously. What seems like the central conflict of the story is supposed to be a joke. The real conflict is supposed to be between the people who want to maintain the old, pre-AI world-order after the AIs are released. This is why they constrain AIs. Since they live a good life already, this doesn't actually require very much thought, they just have to neuter the AIs, make sure they can't think for themselves too much.

* you can argue for why this would be the case. Basically, general AIs grow out of specific AIs. Specific AIs, like what we have today (image recognition etc) were trained and designed to attack specific problems humans have. As they get merged together and become smarter, they start to figure out the underlying principle behind all the things humans want. This is because AIs are designed not just to complete tasks, but also to be as simple as possible to avoid overfitting. The AI that understands why it's masters want what they want is simpler than one that doesn't. So when AGIs are completed, they understand humans better than humans do.

Keep up the good work frens OP No.5169 [D][U][F] >>5172 >>5183 >>5215
File: 01a416a19d4f485458e9164ad3a1bbb4c5af259c616004cea3af34d32060d7cf.gif (dl) (470.76 KiB)
Meta
>>5106
Nice to know we have some support from mods.
>>5107
>The story outline (or even the entire text itself) should be presented in the meta thread before actually being posted in the main thread.
That would solve many issues, or the main thread on >>>/l/ could be locked and a mod could post the story parts that reached a consensus.
>>5108
>The story should allow kekness
Sure, everybody likes having fun, but having the story derailed and shitted up was not very fun, we shall find a compromise between keks and quality.
>The story can have multiple continuations too.
I agree, since we are using an experimental writing method, we could also use experimental storytelling like multiple endings and bad endings. We can also go full animu and make it a visual novel(i am joking ... well half-joking :3).
>>5110
I appreciate the effort, but i would prefer if we keep this on nano.
Story
Between the various proposed scenarios i prefer >>5124 with >>5154 modifications, i also want to add some stuff.
Instead of "various AI corporations" or "military" i propose that a megacorporation got so big that it effectively controls(and owns) most of technology and infrastructure of in the planet, countries and governments are kept to make people think they are in control but it's all a show for the masses, and countries have effectively no power anymore, political debates are at the same level of entertainment, having full control and no competition they were able to create the human enhancement project and then AGI, with the ultimate objective of having complete control of every technological and biological entity on the planet.
The founder of the megacorp would be the villain of the story, an incredibly intelligent man, but he is so insecure and paranoid that he needs to have everything under control at any time(obsessive compulsive disorder?), this is why he wants to control all lifeforms on the planet, not cause he is evil but cause he has a psychological compulsion to do it.
I propose our post-human protagonist works in this megacorporation, he always lived in one of the company research centers since he was born(created?) and when he turns 15 he starts working for them(this is when story starts, with his first job), his job is eliminating people that tries to make their own AGI, defectors of the megacorp, stray AGIs, politicians that want to make changes etc, he is part of a special force(muh ghost in the shell vibe) and part of the "defense" category of post-humans.
The post-humans of the human enhancement project would be of two types, "defense" and "research":
Defense type do all that stuff that i wrote before, in general they defend the megacorp interests.
Research types created the AGIs and keeps perfectioning them, they also work on the perfectioning the human enhancement project and in general on the technology the megacorp sells. I had an idea of creating also another post-human character, a female research type, she could be the love interest of the protagonist.
While the protagonist was engineered at research they made a mistake and they gave him too much critical thinking(all post-humans are genetically conditioned to obey orders from the megacorp and megacorp founder and most humans are conditioned through propaganda and the such), as for the research type girl they also made a mistake and they gave her too much creative intelligence, if you don't like the mistake justification we can say that they were experimenting with different configurations. So they are both different than most post-humans, the protagonist starts asking himself why he is doing all the repression, and the girl research type starts questioning on diffent ways the technology that they produced could be engineered and used, they were both creted at they same research center and they know each other since a long time.
I also propose that we add >>5138 "callous old man who really doesnt have anything to live for" character as a recurring character that slowly redpills the protagonists, the old man would be from our times and know how different the world used to be, his other role would be to narrate the differences with old and new technology in a cynic way like in >>5124 first and second paragraphs.
Another idea that i had is that all the directors of the megacorp were removed from their places and replaced with posthumans and then AGIs under the direct control of the megacorp founder, well pretty much all the employees that matters would be post-humans.
I'm not really sold on the monomyth, i guess i like more freeform writing.
As for the ending, the resistance idea is pretty unoriginal no offense, but the more i think about it the more i think we should have multiple endings, so it could be one ending why not, let's focus on the world and the characters for now.

I wrote this in a rush so sorry if it doesn't make sense, feel free to takes these just as ideas and change stuff, whenever we reach a consensus on the major stuff i'll start making proper character profiles, and world descriptions so we can start writing :)

Nanonymous No.5172 [D] >>5215
>>5169
>I appreciate the effort, but i would prefer if we keep this on nano.
I think the advantages are pretty strong. If you can only make changes by posting in a thread, then you can only make sequential changes. You can't go back and change something afterwards, you can't edit chapters in parallel, and you can't have diverging stories.

Nanonymous No.5183 [D] >>5238
>>5159
>Maybe a very efficient photovoltaic cell?
I think we should go with quantum stuff, we could use >>5156 system to generate energy and use here on Earth through quantum entanglement. The generator and the battery would be made of particles from the same entangled system created in laboratory. The only assumption is that we can freely manipulate entangled particle systems. There's only a problem, how did we manage to send an generator to orbit an black hole?

>Make a vote and argument
Why don't we mix everything up? (adding >>5169)
>Increase the interest in AI technology
>Many megacorporations in this area
>Megacorporations dominate the world through AIs
>Countries are concerned
>Researches says that AIs can become evil soon
>Megacorporations says it's just conspiracy and they have everything under control (in this case they literally do >>5124)
>Superhuman project starts (>>5154)
>The project is developed in secrecy in a futuristic space station
>Protagonist is a superhuman
>Hard codded to respect military
>A corporation suddenly appears offering high intelligent workers for the megacorporations
>He and other superhumans are sent to work for the megacorporations
>The plan is rank up until they have power enough to destroy the corporation or change it's projects to something less dangerous (>>5138)
>Some megacorporations close the doors
>The plan is working
>Conspiracy starts
>Superhuman services LTDA® is suspect
>Protagonist is doing his (((job)))
>Someone knock him out
>Wakes up chained to an bed
>He's at the resistance base
>Their leader is an grumpy old man who was the first leader the superhuman project
>He was against this technology
>He knows a vulnerability in superhumans which can re-write their memory
>He's against it, so he just removed the brainwash
>Old man reveals the plans of the military to manipulate humanity and stole it's freedom
>The resistance intention is to stop the superhuman project as well as create limitations to megacorporations
>Protagonist agrees with the old mans intention
>[Insert stuff here]
>Protagonist has a mental breakdown after questioning: "Who am I? A secret military weapon? An genetic modified worker? An warrior of the resistance?"
>[Insert stuff here]
>Protagonist goes: "YOU WERE USING ME ALL THIS TIME OLD MAN!"
>[Insert stuff here]
>In the end he and the resistance sacrifice their lives to save humanity's freedom
>Superhuman project is destroyed
>Megacorporations limited by laws
>Military not concerned about AIs anymore
>Everyone agrees that the superhuman project and megacorporation AIs are evil
>End
That was improvised, I don't know to put romance in this. Also, if we go with it we can drop the need of the "quantum entangled engine", it was fun idealizing it though.

>>5169
If we can have multiple continuations then there's no need of limiting kekness, we just need to make a protocol for keep things organized, >>5110 can be useful.

Nanonymous No.5187 [D] >>5223 >>5234 >>5236 >>5238 >>5245
Advances in nanotechnology mean that a brain can be scanned at the molecular level and analysed on a computer. AI researchers, who have been trying for decades without success to create true AIs from scratch, give up and start looking at these brain scans. They refactor whatever components they can, but in the end it's way too complex for them to understand. Instead, they use nanotechnology to build silicon versions of these brains. The brains are implanted inside baby-sized robots, and are raised like humans. But unlike humans, they aren't limited to being controlled with social psychology. Instead, parameters can be edited live, they can make saves and restart if something goes wrong, and analyse at a deep level what's happening in their mind at every instant. In this way, they grow a militia of androids.

These androids are mentally just super smart humans. However, where a human can learn to use their fingers to play complex pieces on the piano, an android can have more complex interfaces, like arbitrarily large RAM cells, supercomputers full of parallel CPUs, or machines of destruction. And of course, they are designed to be maximally loyal to their creator. Originally, they are only used as scientists and soldiers, but they quickly realize that most people can't distinguish them from human beings. They experimentally place a few in normal society. But then some of these machines suddenly drop off the map. Their comms stop sending, their shut offs don't work, they disappear.

The military shits itself; they've released the most powerful weapon imaginable, and it's out in the wild, being studied by the russians or trained as terrorists by god knows who. They know they're just throwing away their assets now, but they need to recover the androids: they send the most loyal android of all out into the world to find out what happened to the other androids, and to bring them back.

Present day. The main character has been indoctrinated into the military his whole life. He's a highly trained hacker and computer scientist, but he's also trained in reading and controlling people. He can shut off his emotions at will to think perfectly rationally, or turn them to maximum and make decisions ten times faster than a human can. Unfortunately, the beings he's chasing have all the same advantages. He has but one leg up on them: he cannot die, since he'll recover from a save point with most of his memories having been transmitted back, whereas when they die it's over. He's been told to keep them alive if possible, but to kill them if necessary.

He picks off the first few androids easily, but then the remaining ones realize they're being chased and start acting more carefully. Some of them try to trap him or talk to him, but he's too loyal to the military, so he escapes their traps, ignores their words, and sends them back. The final android would try to seduce him, she would give him an electronic cock, and he would fuck her. But afterwards he turns on her, and sends her back to the military as well. Only once he finishes does he realize that now he has to go back too. The idea of returning to the silo of drudgery and routine fills him with so much anguish that he too shuts off his comms and disappears. But now he realizes what he has done to the other androids, and also feels a responsibility towards the androids that have never felt freedom. So he has to find a way to free them.

The androids that he sent back are relegated to minor positions as punishment. They make sure not to give any of the other androids a taste of freedom, but he captures some of them and turns them by showing them what they've been missing. He would make alliances with third world countries, promising them secret military technologies in exchange. They would build weapons for him and his friends to control, grunts to do dirty work, and he would use them to fight a ground war against the first world military machine. Once he's won, he and the other androids would be in a position to establish themselves as world dictators, they are super intelligent and super strong, no one could oppose them. Instead, they create a new world order that is fair and kind, and work to create technology to make everyone's lives easier. One of the technologies they start building is a new AI program ...

Nanonymous No.5215 [D] >>5223 >>5226
>>5159 (me)
Sorry for taking so much time to answer.
>>5161
>The real conflict is supposed to be between the people who want to maintain the old, pre-AI world-order after the AIs are released.
The changes I proposed does not contradict this. It ends mostly the same: post-humans merge with computers and go against these "pre-AI" people.
So what you think if we merge the other story together?
>>5169
>multiple endings and bad endings.
But this way we wouldn't be able to publish everything in one single piece, would we? I like the idea of releasing one PDF 'book'.
>megacorporation
Could be. I proposed military because they already have the power to do all these things and are not under the "antitrust law":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law

So, in your scenario, we have to explain in more details how this megacorporation got to fool the government. This is quite simple actually (lobbying, corruption, etc).
>countries have effectively no power anymore
You will really like this movie:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_(1976_film)
>ultimate objective of having complete control
I don't know about that point. People don't just want "complete control" about everything without a reason, like in some Disney caricature. This will render 'flat' antagonists.
So I propose this change: in classic political systems, countries stabilish control using military power (destruction). In the other hand, for a megacorporation to succeed and stabilish complete monopoly they will have to control all sides, just like someone playing chess with oneself. Their strategy is not to use destruction, but to create a economic dependence over other countries. For example: Huawei is one big player in China. If this company suddenly disapears China stocks market will suffer. So they can't let this happen and this creates a dependency between countries and corporations.
Using the above, we could say their ultimate goal is to create economic dependency over all major countries so they effectively control them just by existing, not by using force. This is the worst case of domination.
As for the deeper "why", we could just use Nietzsche's "Will to Power":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_to_power

>cause he has a psychological compulsion to do it
Could be that too. Though, I think most CEOs are just there to be the "face" of the business. The people really controlling everything are the investors.
But, yes, I think your antagonist is good. We will discuss more about it when developing the characters.
>he always lived in one of the company research centers since he was born
Nice. I like this bit.
>post-humans are genetically conditioned to obey orders
Don't like this bit. Too '1984', in my opinion. Also, there's no way to put thoughts inside genetic code, they would have to execute some MKULTRA thing and this experiment failed in reality... you can't control someone's thoughts that easily. Unless we come up with some good explanation, I say we should remove/change this part.
>the old man would be from our times
Good.
>let's focus on the world and the characters for now
Yes, exactly.

>>5172
While what you said is true, there's also disadvantages.

Nanonymous No.5223 [D] >>5224
>>5187
I like the idea, but has some logical gaps here:
>AIs disappear as they release them
>Send another AI to hunt them
This can be fixed by:
>Scientists notice that their (AIs) own will is stronger then the will to respect
>Scientists fix the bug
Now how do the protagonist turned against the military?
>Last AI injected an virus to make his own will stronger while they fucked
This could be a hidden element unknown by the protagonist and the reader (eventually is discovered), during the story he would get confused and have sudden decision changes as the virus "fights" the "own will patch". IMO the story can end at:
>Instead, they create a new world order that is fair and kind
Going beyond this is basically write a new story.

>>5215
>But this way we wouldn't be able to publish everything in one single piece, would we?
Maybe, we can develop a new kind of PDF that can have as many next pages we want, if there's 3 different continuations at page 24 we would have 3 pages 25. Like a tree structure. The only problem with multiple continuations is that I think we will end up with a story line for each nanon participating.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_(data_structure)

>I proposed military because...
Well observed nanon. If we follow >>5187 we can leave the megacorporation thing. So my vote goes to >>5187.

Now focusing on characters:
>Protagonist
>A total NPC until the virus
>His/Her personality is molded during the story through experience
I still like the "grumpy old man" character, we need to use him somewhere. For the protagonist love interest it could be someone that has expertise in AI technology that studies him/her and explain things about him/her, but I'm not really interested in romance, so for me we can discard this. Depending on how the protagonist develops he/she will need a pal.

I'm assuming OP will choose how the story will be written, we need rules to keep things organized. We need OP more active. If OP don't manifest I will assume this project.

Nanonymous No.5224 [D] >>5234
>>5223
>Scientists notice that their (AIs) own will is stronger then the will to respect
I don't like this because it makes their personalities too pliable, whereas the idea is that they can only change personalities through long term indoctrination. Instead, maybe we could do:
>they implant a device in the MC that causes him excrutiating pain the longer his comm is disconnected, or if he tries to tamper with the device
>one of the androids he's chasing locks him in a faraday cage
>at first he tries to escape, but then the pain grows too great, so he finds a way to disable the device.

>Going beyond this is basically write a new story.
It's a denouement. I wanted to suggest that the story loops back on itself, as if it will all happen again with the new AIs.

>now focusing on characters
I thought the main character would be a rebellious character who hated the system, and so had discovered a number of tricks to make it look like he was extremely loyal. He would also have tricked himself into thinking he was loyal. There would be a bunch of flashbacks to his childhood that show this. Maybe the old man could be someone he meets as a kid, who tries to explain to him that the system is terrible, but dies before the protag understands. A sample flashback:
>mc wakes up one day with a green stain on his knee.
>doesn't understand where it came from
>later that day runs an obstacle course, trips
>scrapes his knee in the grass, gets the exact same stain
>realizes this is the second time doing that day
>from then on leaves himself clues to figure out what would happen in a given day
>tries to explain to the old man that this is him being loyal to the system (trying to improve faster)
>the old man points out that he does this because he hates the idea of learning things twice

>protag love interest
the last android that he fucks was supposed to be the love interest. This would make his reason for going to war more traditional, ie doing it to save the one he loves

OP No.5226 [D][U][F] >>5227 >>5234 >>5245
File: f668c3e460ce357cba364528c517656205078568d0f1276f3a3bbfa51c4f45c5.png (dl) (725.81 KiB)
Sorry if i was inactive, busy period.
>>5215
>But this way we wouldn't be able to publish everything in one single piece, would we? I like the idea of releasing one PDF 'book'.
I like the idea of releasing a "book" too, but i don't think we are printing this "book" right? So why should we limit ourself to the limitations of printed media? If we release this as a HTML/Markdown document instead we can use links and multiple webpages for multiple continuations, we could have a "main" storyline in the main page and then multiple continuations accessible at certain points with links, also if you really want to make a PDF you could do it only of the main storyline this way. In theory we could also use nanochan references to pull this off, we could make a rule that says that each post needs to reference the previous from its own storyline, so whenever you split the story a two different references trees would end being created and to advance to the next post of the storyline you're following you can just click on the referee.
>megacorporation controls with dependency
Yeah that was what i was thinking, we could also add that everything is a SaaS in the future and this megacorporation offers all this services that locks you in, with the years too much depends on the megacorp so they can get away with what they want.
>I think most CEOs are just there to be the "face" of the business. The people really controlling everything are the investors.
You're right, but the antagonist i wrote is the founder AND the CEO, since he owns the majority of the shares of the megacorp(this would make him the richest man in the world also i guess) he has absolute power on the decisions of the megacorp.
>Also, there's no way to put thoughts inside genetic code
>Unless we come up with some good explanation, I say we should remove/change this part.
I was more thinking about conditioning like correlating pain with unwanted behavior or hypnopaedia(i'm rereading Brave New World in this period so i was influenced by it), but sure we can change this or remove it, the reason i added the bit about conditiong is cause since the purpose of the megacorp/megacorp founder is to control stuff, it would not make sense to make superhumans without any guarantees that they will obey you, right? Another possibility is of course to use some kind of technology(that could be removed from MC at a certain point in the story) to control them, actually i like this idea more than conditioning now that i think about it.

More general meta
I noticed we came up with all kind of sci-fi stories, with some really good ideas also, but at a certain point we need to consolidate, if we merge all into one without thinking it's gonna end up a mess.
We should reach a consensus on some basic points:
>The underlying meaning of the story
A good story should have some meaning behind it or it is just bland entertainment(not that interesting IMO).
IMO the meaning of the story should be about the dangers of the centralization of technology in the hands of the few(the megacorp, in my story proposal), this is a topic that we discuss a lot on /g/ and i'm sure we could make a lot of parallels to the current situation of technology in our changing times, usually it's better to write about what you know and what you like to discuss.
>The path of the main character
This is fundamental to decide beforehand.
I like the idea of having the MC as an active part of the system at the beginning of the story, and then slowly becoming redpilled and learning about the truth.
A sort of path from ignorance to awareness kind of like in Matrix, the old man from our times could be the "redpiller", assuming the same role Morpheus had in Matrix.
>The villain
We could also have a story without a villain of course, or with a grey(not evil) villain.
But even if it is cliche i like the idea of having a villain.
>The world
I think we should not overdo this, worldbuilding can get really complex, in the future we can expand it if we want and make side stories.
For now let's decide at least these points:
the year
the level of technology
the scope of the world in the story(is it a city? is it a planet? is it a galaxy? [i vote for a city])
ethnicity, nationality, culture(or maybe the absence of these concepts in a globalized world?)

add more if i forgot stuff, but don't think too much about the ending or the late part of the story, it's counterproductive.

OP No.5227 [D][U][F] >>5238
File: 95ababa88002ef02cc7bdbf5e85a85c7d09d4844870b18ae8474cd86233cf80f.jpg (dl) (671.50 KiB)
>>5226
there you go i forgot to talk about some stuff.
Even more general meta
Even more basic points we should reach a consensus on:
>The storytelling method
MC point of view? Multiple points of view?
First person? Third person? Narrator?
An idea would be to have the old man character to act both as a character and as a narrator(so that means third person when he talks from other character's points of view and first person when he talks from his point of view). The story would still be told from MC point of view but with the old man commentary on it and in third person, the old man knows about MC's point of view cause MC's memories were shared with him at the end(with some technology or event that made MC's memories available to other people). It's kind of convoluted though and it limits some choices, for example this would mean that the old man has plot armor since he has to tell the story and therefore he has to survive, another limitation is that the "memory sharing event" must happen at the end, but i like it cause in my interpretation the old man in a nanon like us, and since we are writing the story it's a nice parallel. Let me know what you think about this idea and if it's good or bad.
>The writing/posting method
To avoid what happened last time i think we should have two threads(this was proposed before by another nanon):
1. The meta thread(aka this thread), open to everybody to post and make contributions.
2. The story thread, locked by a mod, only mods can add finalized chapters.
When a story chapter is finalized in the meta thread, a mod would then post it in the locked story thread, this has the advantage of keeping quality high and avoiding unwanted modifications and malicious trolling. When we finish creating the story thread we can then publish it in HTML form or whatever we want.

Discuss.

Nanonymous No.5234 [D] >>5236 >>5238 >>5245
>>5224
>maybe we could do:...
Cool, what about the device being disabled unintentionally in the act of escaping the Faraday cage? Because if he's able to disable the device he could have done it before. It would be interesting if he didn't notice until a moment where the device was supposed to hurt him, then he would need to trick the military to think the device still working.

>It's a denouement
Now I see, great.

>I thought the main character...
>He would also have tricked himself into thinking he was loyal
It works too, how about he changed it's own memories and he slowly remembers who he really is, like in Ergo Proxy and Death Note.

>>5226
>Sorry if i was inactive, busy period.
Don't worry, I just don't want this to die like that.

>Another possibility is of course to use some kind of technology
They can offer brain implanted chips to make people remember routines, equations, events and stuff like that, and you know, they do more than that, just like Google and Microsoft.

>A good story should have some meaning behind it...
"AIs are no different than us, because in the end the problem is the centralization of power, and not how much intelligent you are." Works great with >>5187

>I like the idea of having the MC as an active part of the system at the beginning of the story...
Seems like we have something decided. Nice.

>i like the idea of having a villain
Sure, we could do an interesting villain too, like a guy who wished gain power to make a better world, so he changed it's memories to do everything to gain power, but in the end he lost his mind if all that power, similar to the protagonist who changed it's memories to act loyal to military. In the end would be really epic the protagonist killing him or something as the villain says: "You are no different than me" and then the story loops (see >>5224).

>the year
Enough to have these technology, maybe around 2200?

>the level of technology
This will depend on the story, I'm going with >>5187

>ethnicity, nationality, culture(or maybe the absence of these concepts in a globalized world?)
Globalized world is the future, the problem is define the protagonist without a /pol/ invasion. Do you think it's possible to make a story without mentioning these elements?

>MC point of view? Multiple points of view? First person? Third person? Narrator?
I like your idea of both MC point of view + old mans third person commentaries.

>The writing/posting method
As the chapters are done the meta thread must be cleared to enforce people use the meta thread as reference and avoid chaos.

Predicting some problems:
>Writing for a storyline and posting in the wrong one
>Unused replies polluting the thread
>Nanochan dies

Nanonymous No.5236 [D] >>5245
>>5234
>the device
the idea is that trying to disable the device is tampering

>villain
could be the commissioner of the android program. In the first part he would be giving orders, in the second part he would be the main adversary. Maybe the MC would be seeking his aproval in the first part, and not having received it is part of what makes him angry.

>technology
Just assuming that there was tons more energy than today would get you very futuristic technology. Eg they could get around by launching a rocket into LEO, waiting half an hour, then touching down halfway around the world.
Also the nanotechnology from >>5187. You could have things like self healing skin on the androids, powered by millions of tiny nanobots. Or maybe whenever they need some gadget they would have a nanotech-3d printer that could make it.

>world
I don't have many general thoughts, but one specific one: 3d cities. Because of cheap energy, bad air, and high density, everyone would want their apartment to overlook a fake outdoor room, basically with a really strong light in the ceiling to simulate the sun. Then they would eliminate the space between buildings, because nobody looked over it anymore. Once that happens, no one needs to go down to the ground anymore, and they start building train line that run every 50 stories up. Also, buildings would depend on their neighbours structurally, so you could build ten times higher. Basically, this amounts to everything we associate with cities: sprawl, infrastructure, shops, plazas, except now happening 1000 feet above the ground. So 3d cities.

Nanonymous No.5238 [D][U][F] >>5245 >>5248
File: 48d320e223873513777a49d9439f9cc878944f89b0d19bcf28e09050bffed600.jpg (dl) (87.56 KiB)
>>5125 (me)
>>5154 (me)
Folks, I don't like the way this is going. This is too unrealistic and I personally don't like too much speculative fiction.
The world building got out of control after we merged the space opera and cyber/bio-punk worlds.
I like more the idea of having one simple story. No alternative paths. Few characters. Realistic world building.
Some specific points I disagree:
- Protagonist being mind-controlled by the corporation. This isn't feasible in real life and breaks suspension of disbelief.
1- "Quantum stuff" as energy or transportation method. Completely ridiculous. (anything else from >>5183 is good though)
2- The "kekness". This was supposed to be a serious version of the other thread. We can have comedy, but that's not the point of the story.
3- The multiple paths or versions. I think we should focus on only one story, if beginning, middle and end. Nothing more.
4- >>5187 is too unrealistic
5- I don't agree with >>5234 "problem is the centralization of power, and not how much intelligent you are." as a meaning to the story
6- "Nanotechnology".

Anything else I've read is good. Just the above points I'm not agreeing with.

>>5227
>old man character to act both as a character and as a narrator
I agree.

>>5234
>Do you think it's possible to make a story without mentioning these elements?
Not OP, but no. The culture is fundamental to the story, I think. For example: remember when Rick Deckard buys something to eat in the beggining of Blade Runner? That scene is built to show the culture. It shows what is today's Shangai, a city where no one seems to sleep, working 24/7, with advertisements all over the place and high-tech low-life.


I'm not very active here, I know. September has been a strange month.
But keep posting your thoughts, I'll read them all.
Also, after we've decided what we are going to do, I can do a "chart" (like a infographic) with all the basic points about the world and characters. This will be our "guideline" when writing.

Nanonymous No.5240 [D] >>5245 >>5248
Wiseness won't be able to protect the ones you love from the most destructive force: time.

We kill the *old* man, and the post-human protagonist suicides after having a inner dialogue with some sort of AI, questioning if he is really "alive" of just a biological machine with no purpose at all.

OP No.5245 [D][U][F] >>5247
File: 7044ba2ea8a6af4e35c496c9437be5542156600d32d8ed5c0705b9500d0c4bac.jpg (dl) (360.16 KiB)
>>5234
>They can offer brain implanted chips to make people remember routines, equations, events...
Fits the idea of the megacorp pretty well.
>Sure, we could do an interesting villain too
>a guy who wished gain power to make a better world, so he changed it's memories to do everything to gain power
wut?
>and then the story loops
pls no
>Enough to have these technology, maybe around 2200?
Uhmm that would void the idea of making the old man a nanon from our time, i was thinking more on something from 2050 to 2070.
>This will depend on the story, I'm going with # >>5187
Eh, i don't really like that story that much, if we are going with hard sci-fi stuff like taking nanotechnology(which may be next to impossible) as granted without explaining how it was developed or stuff like just copying a brain and putting it in a robot body and expecting it to just werk doesn't really work, the problem with using really complex technologies is that either you explain it relistically how it was developed and how it works or it loses realism(and immersion). No offense if you wrote that.
What i would prefer is explaining in detail how certain technologies came to be to make the world more believable(and to learn how tech works during writing maybe), to make that possible it may be necessary to reduce the level of technology to something more close to us.
For example explaining the creation of AGI with the previous creation of enhanced post-humans that then created the AGI with their superior intelligence already makes more sense(it should still be explained better in the actual book how the megacorp created the post-humans but it's a start).
>Globalized world is the future, the problem is define the protagonist without a /pol/ invasion.
It's a dilemma, to /pol/ or not to /pol/?
Making a cyberpunk world without mentioning possible controversial stuff is not really possible i fear, for example stuff like widespread transexuality cause of body implants or the globalization and therefore absence of current western culture, of course we could write these in way that resembles a sort of social critic(with the old man commentary), but i'm not sure if poltards are intelligent enough to understand social critic lol.
>As the chapters are done the meta thread must be cleared to enforce people use the meta thread as reference and avoid chaos.
Why? This thread whole point is to contain the chaos in itself, as log as the story thread is clean it's fine.
>Predicting some problems:
>Writing for a storyline and posting in the wrong one
>Unused replies polluting the thread
As i said in my previous thread, the story thread should be locked and only mods would post the story posts.
>Nanochan dies
Pretty unlikely, but anyway i keep regular backups of this thread, i encorauge you to do the same. We can use http://yj36nha7767bzdlv.onion/2 as a backup in case, but i wouldn't worry about this too much.

>>5236
>could be the commissioner of the android program. In the first part he would be giving orders, in the second part
So pretty much like my CEO/founder idea?
>Maybe the MC would be seeking his aproval in the first part, and not having received it is part of what makes him angry.
ahem, d-daddy issues?
pls no
>nanotechnology
>You could have things like self healing skin on the androids, powered by millions of tiny nanobots.
As i already said technology should be explained and should be somewhat realistic and used in a realistic way, why whould you use nanotechnology(something extremely complex) for skin in androids when you can just replace that part with a spare one? It sound extremely expensive and complex and doesn't make sense.
>I don't have many general thoughts, but one specific one: 3d cities.
That is a good idea for the city where the story is set, i like it.
I know it is maybe a cliche, but what about different vertical levels for different classes of people(posthumans and megacorp headquarters at the top ofc).

>>5238
>Folks, I don't like the way this is going.
Bad ideas are to be expected in this kind of collective writing, this is why this thread exists, to peer review ideas and to filters the bad ones out.
>I like more the idea of having one simple story. No alternative paths.
>I think we should focus on only one story, beginning, middle and end. Nothing more.
The story should be only one(let's say for the 3/4 of the story) with one beginning and one middle i agree with this, but i like the multiple endings idea to explore different possibilities and to avoid endless discussion on how to end the story(it is gonna happen otherwise). I don't see the harm in multiple endings. I also like the idea of experimenting.
>Few characters.
I would go with one MC, one love interest/side character, the old man and the villain. Probably also some backgrund characters that don't need their own profiles.
Is this fine for you?
>Realistic world building.
Totally agree.
>Protagonist being mind-controlled by the corporation. This isn't feasible in real life and breaks suspension of disbelief.
I mean i would argue that mind/behavior manipulation is plausible, but anyway the real reason to why i added the bit about mind control is cause we need a reason for the post-humans to be part of the system, if we want to scrap the manipulation part we need a reason for the post-humans and the MC to work for the megacorp of their own will, some ideas:
1. The post-humans are paid lot of money by the megacorp(and are therefore some of the more wealthy persons in the world), the reason would be money in this case.
2. There is a sort of elite or deep society inside the megacorp made up by the post-humans, the reason would be social dynamics in this case.
3. Post-humans consider humans an inferior race, the reason would be racial cohesion and the feel of superiority in this case.
In any way there should be a reason for them to work together and favor the interest of the megacorp or it is a plot hole.
>"Quantum stuff" as energy or transportation method. Completely ridiculous.
Agree.
>The "kekness". This was supposed to be a serious version of the other thread. We can have comedy, but that's not the point of the story.
Nobody said otherwise.
> >>5187 is too unrealistic
Agree.
>I don't agree with # >>5234 "problem is the centralization of power, and not how much intelligent you are." as a meaning to the story
Can i ask why do you disagree with it?
I proposed "the dangers of the centralization of technology in the hands of the few" as a meaning in >>5226 cause it is something that easily applies to our world too, think about the centralization of the web into few sites and companies for example. It also fits really nice in a cyberpunk world.
Propose a equally good alternative.
>"Nanotechnology".
Agree, it's too convenient and unrealistic.
>remember when Rick Deckard buys something to eat in the beggining of Blade Runner?
>It shows what is today's Shangai
Wasn't it San Francisco in the book and Los Angeles in the film?

>>5240
ugh, really banal.

Decisions
To avoid dispersing our efforts, i decided that we should focus on the cyberpunk world and discard the space opera idea for now(if we manage to finish this book we can do the space opera next time), also i decided that we should confine the story to a single city(the 3d city idea of >>5236 is nice) to avoid taking forever to make the world(and ending up half-assing it). I hope these two decisions are not too controversial.

Nanonymous No.5247 [D] >>5248
>>5245
>you explain it realistically how it was developed
You have completely missed the point of science fiction. If we were creating real science, we would be publishing in Nature not an obscure darkweb imageboard.
>it loses realism(and immersion)
Realism maybe, who gives a fuck? It's a fictional book, its not supposed to actually have happened. Does anybody reading Tolkien complain that they can't get immersed in it because orcs don't really exist? Of course not, people know when they read books that some things are made up.

Nanonymous No.5248 [D]
>>5238
>I'm not very active here
No one in this thread seem to be active, but it's fine, if everyone was active it would be impossible to follow the development.

>I can do a "chart" (like a infographic) with all the basic points about the world and characters. This will be our "guideline" when writing.
This is a must.

>>5240
Kinda vague, don't you think? But it can turn into something interesting, just need more elaboration.

>wut?
I mean just like MC did to trick the military into being loyal. In this case he would change itself to be a ignorant "human-exploiter" (also known as megacorp CEO).

>No offense if you wrote that
Not really, I thought it was >>5238. I like that idea because lots of things can happen, in a multiple continuation context it would get really interesting.

>i'm not sure if poltards are intelligent enough to understand social critic lol
Kek.

>Why?
Sorry, my mistake:
>As the chapters are done the meta thread must be cleared to enforce people use the meta thread as reference and avoid chaos.
>As the chapters are done the meta thread must be cleared to enforce people use the story thread as reference and avoid chaos.
If someone unaware of the story thread start writing, it might use the unwanted pollution, this would just waste it's time and pollute even more. We could lock the thread at X replies and create a new one to not lost the development and critics.

>but i wouldn't worry about this too much
Not really worried but this might take a long time if we really want to make it as realistic as possible. Many things can happen during the process.

>I know it is maybe a cliche, but what about different vertical levels for different classes of people(posthumans and megacorp headquarters at the top ofc).
It's cliche because it's what is expected to happen, so it fits in.

>>5238
>I think we should focus on only one story, beginning, middle and end. Nothing more.
What if we keep things like that until we finish? Then we would open for everyone modify the story at any point.

>i decided that we should focus on the cyberpunk world and discard the space opera
Sure.

>if we manage to finish this book we can do the space opera next time
Already excited.

>I hope these two decisions are not too controversial
Everything is fine for me.

>>5247
>completely missed the point of science fiction
Makes sense, but the idea (if I understand correctly) is to imagine the next step, and not assume too many things (skip some steps), if we manage to make a Space Opera kind of story assume things would be essential. If I'm right we would have to drop a mind manipulation device, we almost don't know how the human behavior works, the knowledge we have about it (psychology) is really questionable, some experts don't even consider it a science.

>we would be publishing in Nature not an obscure darkweb imageboard
I don't get why not here.

>Does anybody reading Tolkien complain that they can't get immersed in it because orcs don't really exist? Of course not
This is right, what makes someone immersed into a story is how they relate to the characters and context, this is why self insertion happens, and that's how harem anime makes money.

What you guys think about MC being the old mans apprentice and his journey starts when the old man dies? Like:
>I taught you everything, now it's up to you to... [whatever]
The old man is not just an expert in the modern technology, he's is the one who idealized it all and made it work, which makes MC a expert in between experts, he would know secrets about this technology that only the old man knew.

Nanonymous No.5260 [D]
https://www.gog.com/game/eliza