Maybe it's cause i am late to the party or maybe i am just a brainlet, but i never really figured out the IRC and XMPP world.
My problem is that i don't really know where to start at this point, so assume that i am a retard and suggest:
Best client.
Good Servers to join.
Security tips.
How to set up with tor properly.
My interests are technology, anime, videogames and piracy
Also just discuss IRC and XMPP and your experiences with these IM technologies i guess.
XMPP is XML, so it's too slow. It's also too bandwidth-inefficient.
Btw I took those 2 statements from their FAQ which tries to say XMPP is fast and bandwidth efficient but they only proved it wasn't, an hilarious display of the crazyness of people in software development today.
Although it was made in 1998 or thereabouts, it was the hell's bells of the era to come.
While I do agree that a replacement for something as haphazardly hacked togheter as IRC is needed, that phrase doesn't make sense in the modern era of software where it would only be replaced by something truly insane not based on the replacement's technical merits (of which there are none) but because it's new.
So just don't use XMPP and don't let that happen, stick to IRC until perhaps one day an improvement on it comes out.
>suggest
Best clients are irssi and weechat, I use irssi. I don't remember why I didn't pick weechat, but they're oddly enough 2 separate projects making the same thing. They're both relatively well made clients that performance-wise would run fine on a 486 to this day, they're written in C, they're based on a terminal UI, and they both have plugins in script form. Besides their source codes being entirely separate, the only real difference is that weechat basically comes themed, whereas with irssi you might want to install a nick color plugin.
>good servers to join
irssi comes preconfigured with a load of networks.
Some people are autistic about the server they're on, I don't get it, but I just join channels that interest me in whatever network. Avoid Rizon anime channels though, they're ironic weeb cancer.
Rizon has some 4chan irc channels, they used to be good, but they're newfag territory now like most imageboards.
Freenode is full of neat free software project channels.
For piracy try #ebooks on irchighway and http://www.xdcc.eu/https://sunxdcc.com/
You can also look up channels on networks, should be a command on irssi's /help command. When you run it it might complain your query might be treated as spam (irssi will send a trillion requests on the background because of irc's trickyness there) but nobody does that nowadays and if you somehow get punished which won't happen just change your nick and ip hop.
>Security tips.
Everyone sees your IP on IRC when you join because join messages contain them. DCC connections are direct. Use a proxy if that worries you.
>How to set up with tor properly.
Some networks ban tor or require special registration, but otherwise just follow your client's proxy setup.
Also change your nick, real_name, user_name, alternate_nick before you join a server because they're set to your user's name by default. Use one per server too, don't be some faggot who uses the same nick everywhere.
>irc
A lot of specialized chats. No chat history, everyone sees your ip, messages cannot even have newlines in them AFAIK.
>xmpp
Practically dead. I know only a couple of group chats. X stands for extensible so it has everything you might want - all sorts of encryption (omemo, pgp, otr), chat history, file transmission, etc.
Slowness of xml isn't really a problem in a chat application, unless you're sending a message per millisecond or something.
So this protocol is by all means better.
Best client for desktop is dino, best client for mobile is conversations. Both are rather shitty though. Servers go down quite often.
Regarding IRC versus XMPP:
If you trust the server relaying your messages and/or the conversation is public, IRC is fine. If you want to have private conversations without the server seeing your messages (and you want features like multi-line messages, typing notifications, read receipts, file transfer, etc), use XMPP with OMEMO end-to-end encryption.
>IRC best client
WeeChat
>XMPP best client
Profanity
>Good servers to join
There are none.
Freenode requires special setup for Tor, that is to say you have to login in a less secure way first to get a signature or some bs first.
Rizon I think blocks Tor entirely?
>Discord
Blocks Tor entirely (impassible Google captcha).
Matrix is the only chat system that doesn't have a stick up it's ass about Tor (you can literally join almost any of them with Tor), but suffers from an extremely fragmented culture. It's basically PC Communists vs actual Nazis and a few people caught in between (many of which are undercover for one the two sides).
Most of the servers (called homeservers, which are supposed to federate with one another) are run by the PC Communists, who block the Nazis from federating with the largest servers. Then also the Nazis have their own clique of 8chan /pol/ tier cancer. The whole thing is a cluster fuck, but has some promise I guess.
Supposedly some new system based on Matrix called "the Grid" was supposed to be better, not sure if that went anywhere.
You can also join bridges to some (mostly Rizon) IRC channels, and avoid your IP getting sent, but that only works in channels that don't require you to register.
Maybe if someone made a Tor-only Matrix server without a Riot/javashit front end it would be cool, though moderating out the bullshit would be a huge pain in the ass. I guess you have to vet everyone on join.
IRC is a botnet, almost all networks ban Tor and public proxies in order to record you and send to police
exception seems to be OFTC network
IRC is dead and shit though, you join a room with 300 people or more but they rarely speak
IRC mods are niggers censoring everything or banning when you insult their friend, they are worse than reddit mods
when you join room you don't see any past messages. traffic is unencrypted by default. private messages are visible and stored by the server, then forwarded to police department
>>8261 >no chat history
owo why is my irc logs folder over 100GB then?
>Slowness isn't really a problem
If you started off your post with that I would've known to ignore it sooner.
>owo why is my irc logs folder over 100GB then?
because you're obviously lurking in the channel and storing them to disk, and apparently can't read either.
>>8292 >multi-line messages
useless
>typing notifications
bloat
>read receipts
not anyone's problem
>file transfer
I poo'd. Not the chat protocol's job.
It seems like XMPP is just repeating IRC's mistakes, and introducing its own.
If you want a chat that just works the closest we have is IRC, so until something replaces that heap of trash we sit it out.
>>8294 >IRC is a botnet, almost all networks ban Tor and public proxies
This. A lot of xmpp servers on the contrary provide a .onion address and sometimes even .i2p
>>8293 So what does Matrix bring to the table, again? What can it do that xmpp cannot?
As far as I know their flagman client is riot, which is a "webapp" which is already a huge red flag.
Also a lot of servers seem to require recaptcha.
I'm currently just shitposting on rizon/freenode channels frequented by mildly techy normalfags who spout cuckchan /g/ memes, call vim well made, know nothing but webshit and python basics, and repeat the same retarded normalfag talking points such as "for most people it works fine" or "i3-gaps is superior to i3 because the i3 maintainer won't introduce ${useless fluff like gaps and transparency}".
If you've engaged with the free software community after the millenium you are either one of those or want to strangle them one by one.
I get banned, make a new account because the networks are datamining jews and allow channels to require accounts, come back, and talk shit a few hours every day. I just wanted to talk to people into improving this magical invention we have the honor of living in the primordial time of.
>>8236 >XMPP is XML, so it's too slow. It's also too bandwidth-inefficient.
It's chat, you bafoon. That said, XMPP is indeed trash. And so is IRC
>>8260 >murica
>Slowness of xml isn't really a problem in a chat application, unless you're sending a message per millisecond or something.
>>8261 that's still not nearly enough throughput for XML to matter in either speed of encoding or size of data transfered
>>8266 there are no girls on the internet
>As far as I know their flagman client is riot, which is a "webapp" which is already a huge red flag. Also a lot of servers seem to require recaptcha.
WeeChat has a Matrix plugin. No javashit there, except for maybe signing up.
>>8321 I think that was the old plugin?
Also the E2EE thing is a bit of misnomer, all messages are encrypted anyway, E2EE just brings a layer IP/device checking for who can read the message history into it that doesn't even work with Tor.
>client
i use HexChat judge me.
>matrix
matrix is the protocol, riot is a webapp client, i don't know much about it though is the protocol good compared to irc/xmppm, are there good alternative clients?
>>8292 most useful post in the thread.
>>8310 >I hunger for tech related IRC channels.
same.
>>8314 Shitpost from a VPS they haven't caught up to and provides you with loads of ipv6 addresses.
Alternatively drive by a wi-fi network, Test its router for remote code execution CVEs with script kiddie software such as metasploit until you get in, and use it as a proxy. If it gets banned renegotiate the router's connection, only works if you live somewhere everyone has dynamic IPs.
>>8344 >a good IRC channel/server
>why doesnt someone here make one?
Because this is an oxymoron. IRC isn't good, so a channel or server for it can't be good either. If you were starting from scratch you wouldn't make IRC.
>>8351 This is true, but explain to me how your average imageboard (including 4chan) isn't better than any IRC channel. imageboards have:
- thread history
- file uploads
- multi-line messages and rich-text formatting
- anonymous posting
So in one fell swoop they cure all the diseases of IRC. The main problem they introduce is non-instantaneous updates, but this is curable (see meguca), and besides is probably a good thing since instant updates encourage quick responses over thoughtful replies.
The only reason to use IRC is because someone you want to talk to is in on IRC.
>>8388 All the IRC networks I've looked into are extremely anal about the servers they'll link with, and typically impose a large amount of editorial control. This is obviously neccessary, but it severely weakens the popular view of federation as censorship protection. It's basically a DDoS mitigation and load balancing technique at that point.
There should definitely be networks of imageboards in the same sense, the software probably wouldn't even be that hard to write either. I still don't think this makes IRC that useful to copy.
>>8344 I don't want to hotpocket and I already invest my time in better things such as watching anime 9/10ths of my free time and being productive the other 1/10th
>>8419 16chan and co. are a very different thing from the kind of federation used by irc and for example mastodon. In that, you could connect to one server, but be able to view and post against any other (federated) server. The "alternate chan alliance" is just a webring, ie they have links to each other's boards. Very different things.
>>8423 Yeah they're not, they are just advertising each other. They are also fucking shady man, they were conspiring to monetized their users and shit. Stay away.
>>8373 >see meguca
Danm meguca got shoahed. When the fuck did that happen and why?
All it takes is one plant and two dead germans and they can take down your site without question. We're lucky to have avoided most /pol/ cancer, but we need to get a decentralized imageboard running.
Are there any XMPP networks that don't require accountfaggotry or getting one is as simple as using a random mail address? What are some nice places for filesharing/discussion on those?
>>9725 Getting an XMPP account is actually easier than registering an email address. XMPP servers rarely even ask for an email, and practically never for phone numbers or captchas
XMPP allows for anonymous "authentication" and I've seen a server that allows anyone to "log in" anonymously but I dont remember the address
>>9725>>10006 Problem is most XMPP severs are FUCKING DEAD.
If you get an invite to RiseUp I hear there is cool shit there, but again, how the fuck you get an invite I don't know (probably by being a communist or some dumb shit).
how bout pidgin?
personally hate having so many programs for different things that have similar category. also having to trust different entities
>>8302 >pic
anime plz?
>>8310 >"for most people it works fine"
But many things work just fine. Why do you hate usability?
>>9725 >pic
anime?
>>10043 >most XMPP servers are dead
Then host one.
>>10043 Servers are fine. The server's job is to, well, serve its clients, and almost all xmpp servers manage to do that.
The overall network is pretty much dead though. There is no (((corporation))) that would develop for it or attract new users, so it will stay that way.
>If you get an invite to RiseUp I hear there is cool shit there,
Generally, shit isn't tied to a particular server in xmpp.
>>10074>>10090 >Server's are fine
>Just host one
The PROBLEM isn't they are fucking offline, you MORON (!!!!!!), the PROBLEM IS THAT THEY ARE FUCKING DEAD, LIKE I FUCKING SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is NO ONE there, it's an EMPTY FUCKING GHOST TOWN!
>generally shit isn't tied to a server
Oh yeah, like channels aren't tied to IRC servers, and threads aren't tied to specific chans.
OF COURSE THEY FUCKING ARE. Unless they federate, which they don't, otherwise it wouldn't BE FUCKING DEAD!!!!!!!!!!
>>10074 >how bout pidgin? personally hate having so many programs for different things that have similar category. also having to trust different entities
great. so have one with RCE vulns (no time to post link jewgle it yourself)
>>10146 just log onto the XMPP of Fortnite or some other popular game. they're too fucking stupid to disable the general functionality so a lot of them are probably usefu as full blown XMPP servers
>>10146 Oh yeah, like channels aren't tied to IRC servers, and threads aren't tied to specific chans.
OF COURSE THEY FUCKING ARE. Unless they federate, which they don't, otherwise it wouldn't BE FUCKING DEAD
Why am I wasting my time on these morons
>Best client.
Gajim for PC
Conversations/Chatsecure for mobile
>Good Servers to join.
There is a list of servers on conversations.im somewhere.
>Security tips.
Enable OMEMO in your client.
My problem is that i don't really know where to start at this point, so assume that i am a retard and suggest:
Best client.
Good Servers to join.
Security tips.
How to set up with tor properly.
My interests are technology, anime, videogames and piracy
Also just discuss IRC and XMPP and your experiences with these IM technologies i guess.