What are some options or tools for passing on learnt/known information to others in the Wiki format?
What are some cool Wikis that you like, heard of, read or contribute to?
Here are a few:
>Arch Wiki
>InstallGentoo Wiki (not to be confused with the Gentoo Wiki)
>Wikipedia (duh)
>EncyclopediaDramatica (4chan: the Wiki)
>TheHiddenWiki (existence disputed, lame)
Ideal hosting specs:
- No cost ($)
- Clearnet, Onion, I2P and Gopher addresses available
- Static (or dynamic, though much less likely considering free) web hosting/content publishing (that does not require use of JavaScript at any point preferably)
- Ability to make profit (donations, optional crypto miners, ads)
- Federated
The first three are obviously the most feature full, being literal free static hosting.
>inb4 LMFAO YOU CAN'T RUN A WIKI ON STATIC HOSTING YOU IMBECILE
You could have a directory of Wiki-style formatted pages doing this, without JS.
Better suggestions?
>But this leaves one great big problem, requiring a Lmao Zedong Great Leap Forward!
Non of those that I know of have .Onion, only Clearnet addresses, unless you blow your anonymity like in #4.
So what do, Nanons? Pay money over Monero and just get a VPS? What if you are poor? Also, security risks of running it yourself!
>inb4 use NeoCities plus SourceHut (people can contribute to Wiki on SourceHut via version control and it gets 'committed' to NeoCities)
SourceHut is a paid ($) service.
>inb4 Steemit
Lot's of JavaScript, and can't really into Wiki afaik, unless some D-Tube equivalent Steemit based Wiki.
There are two Steemit Wikis, one is dead the other is for Steemit related help pages only.
src: https://steemit.com/steemit/@webosfritos/a-full-indexed-list-of-all-steemit-apps
>inb4 Contribute to existing Wiki dumb ass! XKCD 927!!!!
>https://xkcd.com/927/ Weird rules, usually anti-Tor and different goals.
>inb4 self/home host
Can you say s e c u r i t y r i s c c ?
What do you do for protecting against people posting illegal content? Are captchas and registrations enough?
>inb4 Wikis are a terrible format
What do you think is superior then?
> 6993
You can host your own, just don't do it as a personal project. Create a LLC and register you site with the company as the owner. Then you'd benefit from safe harbor laws service providers enjoy.
A wiki is really just a series of static webpages, and for editing you could either use something like what a nanon made for the /ncwe/ thread but done with markdown (simple, editable in-browser), or by hosting a git instance for it (granular management, lesser effort required)
>>7041 >>static
>yes fuck js
static/dynamic speaks to the backend, whether it is anything more than a naive file host. A static site will sometimes still have scripts. Consider myanee (>>7023), who hosts "static" sites, but lets people put scripts on them.
>No, who will keep the money and for what purposes?
This is a good point. If people write articles for free, it's very rude to make money off them. This is only excusable if you're paying for hosting, which OP explicitly isn't.
What the fuck would be in it? It would be like a Lainiggers' project, nihilistic hedonists searching for a raison d'etre of their technical skills. Cargo cultists adrift in the waiyado.
>>7018 >Writing the software
Not worried about it, HTML/CSS, a relevant static markup or a shell script would be plenty easy.
>He's not bad
Picochan looked great tbh.
>You need a lot of contribs
Not worried about this, if people want to contribute, nice, let them, if they don't, whatever.
>>7026>>7030 >clearnet is infected
Okay fair.
1. Make it read only on the clearnet then?
I wanna nano redpill normies, but they have to put in the effort to at least install Tor Browser.
2. If go the version control route, there are no GitLab tier sites with onion addresses?? So it would be on clearnet, albeit in a less good looking form.
>Is gopher necessary
Not really, but Gopher over Tor would be a nice addition, as it's the total anti-web-2.0/3.0.
>>7040 I like the Git option.
It would be a stopgap towards spam & illegal content as well.
>>7041 >Why I2P
Again, would be a nice solution.
Isn't the general consensus that while I2P is a possible solution to overall issues of the internet/WWW, Tor is a band-aid?
>Why don't we start with Tor
Okay.
>Static, JS bad
As someone else mentioned, a static host means it cannot into server-side, ie Node, PHP, Ruby, Python, Java etc. It is simply a byproduct that most sites tend to be minimalist and some forgo the need for JS.
That said, not using JS is a good thing.
>Will it be a general purpose wiki or a specific content wiki?
Start with specific content.
>Federated
Like the fediverse. Anyone can host an instance or alternate node of it, and changes made on one instance work with the others. Would be complicated to create, and would require dynamic hosting.
>>7042 >If people write articles for free, it's very rude to make money off them. This is only excusable if you're paying for hosting, which OP explicitly isn't.
1. Having quality contributors be able to ask for donations would be a boon to quality content creation.
2. Switching to a paid host from a free one.
This is not mandatory or necessarily feasible, just a thought.
>>7047 >mediawiki works fine without js
Does it really? Would it necessarily be better than just writing in HTML or a markdown?
>>7048 I just want a list of non-glowing and/or superior software, without having to comb 100 different sites and threads.
If that doesn't die in a fire, maybe include a couple more categories of things.
>>6993 Cute idea, but:
1. Keep it tor-only for now.
2. Host it yourself, or use Myanee's service
3. Don't make it about profit, it's not gonna happen anyway and it's gonna ruin your project, if you make it it should be ut of passion, if you need money ask for donations.
I would go for the static content way and keep it simple, users can submit markdown that gets interpreted by the server and transformed into html, adding content this way would not be that different than how nanochan posting and static pages works.
Git is gonna add too much complexity.
If you keep it relatively obscure it shuld be easy to moderate, don't worry that much about illegal content if you stay anonymous and do everything via tor you're not gonna be targetable anyway.
Good luck.
>>7054 >However, that site has a bad cert I think?
No, it has a self signed cert just like nanochan.
<b-but https is redundant for a hidden service
Not in my case. The certificate proves that it comes from my hosting box and not from my gateway. Between my host and gateway boxes the traffic would be encrypted anyways since it uses wireguard.
>>7055 >Myanee's
I'm just a Nanon. Myanee Host is just the current branding around the service.
Freenet has had the working wiki implementation (over version control system (over Freenet)) for about ten years. Collective work is possible with any text exchange channel (for example, over FMS, a message board system (over Freenet)). I should remind you that Freenet is entirely static distributed storage you can only push and pull little blocks of data to/from.
Learn the existing technology before reinventing the wheel. A centralized web server is the sweetest spot for anyone who wants to have power over the participants.
BTW, The Hidden Wiki you can find today is a joke compared to the original one, which certainly existed.
>>7055 Please see >>7054 I mostly agree, however
>users can submit markdown that gets interpreted by the server
I believe would require dynamic, not static, hosting?
>>7059 Is Freenet like Zeronet in that it gives you no way to protect yourself against accidentally distributing potentially illegal content?
Also, Freenet is a little bit less accessible/well known, which would go against any attempt to redpill normies.
My ideal wiki would be:
>only accessible over anonymization networks (Tor, i2p, lokinet, etc)
>static (HTML and CSS only)
>not seeking profit or asking for donations
>users can contribute anonymously (no account registration)
>an up-to-date dump of all content can be easily downloaded (so offline reading and forking is painless)
I think the best solution is to self-host a git repo where users can make anonymous pull requests. The admin/mods/vols manually accept patches to filter spam and prohibited content. OpenBSD httpd to serve the content until ipfs over Tor is a reality.
There are two ways content could be written. One is to write in a markup language (e.g. MediaWiki) and use a program like Pandoc to generate HTML. The advantage of this is that Pandoc can also generate to other formats like PDF and plaintext (i.e. for Gopher). Libreboot does this for their wiki: https://libreboot.org/git.html
Option two is to write the HTML manually (from templates). I'm pretty sure OpenBSD's FAQ is written manually judging from the commits on cvsweb and the quality of the HTML. Advantage is more flexibility and higher quality HTML than what is generated by Pandoc.
>>6993 >self-hosting over Tor is a SECURITY RISK guys!!!1 :'(
>let's host our wiki on literal clearnet botnet instead teehee xD
gets banned for hate speech :P >let's buy a ebin vps with monero :DD
But all VPS are UNTRUSTED HARDWARE with direct access to your server logs, credentials, and onion address private keys, nanon!!! xD
>federation
Unnecessary complexity when anyone can easily fork the project. A way for moderators/volunteers to seamlessly migrate to the new fork should be provided as well; i.e. mods/vols create signify key pairs and the pub keys are hosted on the wiki. That way if an admin goes AWOL or throws a tantrum someone can fork and everything can continue like nothing ever happened.
Seems the simplest solution would be:
- GitLab or Notabug or some other to host the code and handle changes/editing/patching whatever
- Host via Myanee
>>7064 What do you have against donations, especially if conducted over Monero (anonymous)?
Users could still contribute anonymously but have to sign up, that's what the Libreboot site is describing.
They say "get an account at Notabug".
Just use cockli, elude or some of the others for an email, and go with a random username.
>>7054 The git option could also be done with gitlab ce and gitlab pages too maybe, so you might not even need to write any software for it
>Does it really?
Try editing a wikipedia page without javascript (without tor, because it won't work otherwise), it works with basically the same functionality, just without a toolbar.
>>7060 The Freenet opennet has many fewer users these days than it used to. Basically some cops in Missouri (of all fucking places lol) supposedly came up with a statistical method for deanonymizing Freenet nodes. The Freenet devs say it's bullshit, but warrants have been served and several people have been sent to prison based on their method. So, basically, many fewer people are using Freenet these days out of fear of being pwned by LEAs.
It's my understanding that the Freenet darknet concept (as opposed to opennet), with people you trust, is still quite secure. But we don't know each other and most people like us don't know enough other tech savvy people who might want to set up a Freenet node, so it's a moot point.
I'm working on a thingy right now.
It's a shell script that converts markdown to html and generates a tag page and an index page so people can search for stuff with ctrl-f. It should be done within 12 hours.
>>7145 I think this a good idea because then you can write your own compiler to make stuff as pretty or as complicated as you like, without having to restructure html by hand.
>>7145 It's generally not a good idea to use shell scripts to parse untrusted input by the way, make sure you know what you're doing and what you're in for
>>7148 Its just gonna give an idea for the basic syntax. The bash script will only be a prototype. I just too lazy to write it in an 'actual' language. If you can read bash scripts, you can easily implement it in another language.
>>7491 If you are talking how I administer the service I have an authorized v3 onion on my gateway which has an ssh service which I use as a jump box which connects over wireguard to an ssh server running on the host box.
If you are asking how you connect to the registration service I would recommend using torsocks with telnet. You can alternatively netcat on port 23, I support both for convenience.
>myanee
The security question is biased towards anime watching weebs.
I have no idea what a "myanee" is, I just see perverted memes about it on the internet.
I'm gonna have to use a boomer service like GitLab unless someone explains this to me.
>>7755 >The security question is biased towards anime watching weebs.
I'm not sure what you are implying by this, but I have made my system architecture fairly public if you want to judge the security of it.
>I have no idea what a "myanee" is
Myanee is a character from the CGTDCT anime Watashi ni Tenshi ga Maiorita! which aired shortly before I made the service. The reason is because I thought the image of Myanee which you can find on the homepage is fitting. The codename of the service is not related.
>>7760 A question a non-weeb person could figure out.
Like "who were Data's brothers in Star Trek Voyager". A misleading question but could be solved by any non-bot, even if they don't know jack about Star Trek (by looking at memory-alpha or something).
Or a link to a captcha or something.
>>7759 Many thanks.
Not questioning your security, I was just commenting on how someone who has little knowledge of anime or Japanese culture would have difficulty passing.
>>7770 I have 8 different answers which I accept with different variations. Half of them using the romanization of her name and the other half use kanji / kana. For figuring out what the answer actually is a internet search of the question will due. For me the answer is on the first result.
>>7778 So everytime you change or add a page you have to regenerate every single page from scratch? Is there not a smarter way while maintaining your directory.html?
>>7779 Probably is, do you have any suggestions?
I suppose one alternative would be to handle the tags separtely, and take notice of all the files.
Or just check if file already exists or not in the directory.html, if not then write to it.
Another issue to consider is alphabetization.
>>7780 When a file is added or regenerated it keeps track of the "diff" of tags. Then it loads the entire directory.html file into memory and starts printing out and applies the diff as it goes. In C there is no way to add stuff into the middle of a file, you have to rewrite everything after where you inserted text.
If you want to run a personal wiki there are plenty of objects. I would recommend VimWiki, combined with pandoc and a static site generator.
DokuWiki and pmWiki are both good options but have inevitable limitations. Mediawiki is king.
>What are some cool Wikis that you like, heard of, read or contribute to?
The cloverOS wiki (wiki.cloveros.ga). Basically a replacement for the installgentoo wiki, but run by competent human being(s).
>Now, what if you wanted to create one?
I do. Was going to go with mediawiki + cheap .xyz domain + cheap hosting. The scope of the wiki will be FREE SOFTWARE and other freedom related topics (security, privacy, et al.).
I had a bunch of A+ articles written, then I switched loonix distros (backing up my home folder). Stupidly forgot the articles are stored in a system dir.
Oh and to prevent spam
>Editors must be approved manually (probably by confirming they are human to a someone in a chat room). Tor allowed though.
>>8381 Nice, had not heard of the CloverOS wiki, will definitely check it out.
>implementation of wiki
Am writing a "markdown" in C, will probably go that route for now.
Just need to implement more features and it will be ready for basic usage.
Probably Notabug editing/git hosting unless I hear of a better one.
And of course, the unparalleled previously mentioned myanee hosting.
What are some options or tools for passing on learnt/known information to others in the Wiki format?
What are some cool Wikis that you like, heard of, read or contribute to?
Here are a few:
>Arch Wiki
>InstallGentoo Wiki (not to be confused with the Gentoo Wiki)
>Wikipedia (duh)
>EncyclopediaDramatica (4chan: the Wiki)
>TheHiddenWiki (existence disputed, lame)
Wikipedia's list of Wikis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis
Now, what if you wanted to create one?
Ideal hosting specs:
- No cost ($)
- Clearnet, Onion, I2P and Gopher addresses available
- Static (or dynamic, though much less likely considering free) web hosting/content publishing (that does not require use of JavaScript at any point preferably)
- Ability to make profit (donations, optional crypto miners, ads)
- Federated
>inb4 keep on dreaming
I'm not sure how much JavaScript they require to use (probably a lot), but the following services/methods exist, that cover some of those specs:
#1 https://pages.github.com/ (Microsoft owned)
#2 https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/pages/ (#1 minus Microsoft)
#3 https://neocities.org/ (Remake of GeoCities)
#4 https://mroystonward.github.io/non-anonymous-tor-hidden-service-using-google-cloud/
#5 https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Special:CreateNewWiki (AKA Wikia, used as host for numerous fictional Wikis such as Wookiepedia)
There's also WordPress, Blogger and Google Sites and Amazon Free Tier memes.
The first three are obviously the most feature full, being literal free static hosting.
>inb4 LMFAO YOU CAN'T RUN A WIKI ON STATIC HOSTING YOU IMBECILE
You could have a directory of Wiki-style formatted pages doing this, without JS.
Better suggestions?
>But this leaves one great big problem, requiring a Lmao Zedong Great Leap Forward!
Non of those that I know of have .Onion, only Clearnet addresses, unless you blow your anonymity like in #4.
So what do, Nanons? Pay money over Monero and just get a VPS? What if you are poor? Also, security risks of running it yourself!
>inb4 use NeoCities plus SourceHut (people can contribute to Wiki on SourceHut via version control and it gets 'committed' to NeoCities)
SourceHut is a paid ($) service.
>inb4 Steemit
Lot's of JavaScript, and can't really into Wiki afaik, unless some D-Tube equivalent Steemit based Wiki.
There are two Steemit Wikis, one is dead the other is for Steemit related help pages only.
src: https://steemit.com/steemit/@webosfritos/a-full-indexed-list-of-all-steemit-apps
>inb4 Contribute to existing Wiki dumb ass! XKCD 927!!!!
>https://xkcd.com/927/
Weird rules, usually anti-Tor and different goals.
>inb4 self/home host
Can you say s e c u r i t y r i s c c ?
What do you do for protecting against people posting illegal content? Are captchas and registrations enough?
>inb4 Wikis are a terrible format
What do you think is superior then?
>inb4 catch-all thread
Sad face.
DISCUSS! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE