Jim's new 8chan shows Department of Defense IP addresses when trace routing. You can easily check it out for yourself, even with online tools such as https://tools.keycdn.com/traceroute [CLEARNET]
>>15503 If that's true they'll pretty much lose all of their oldfags. What possible benefit would it have over 4chan at that point? It would actually be worse, because of the userbase.
If the old 8chan with ALL the old boards is not going to be up, it's as good as dead to me. I used some cozy board with like a post in a day or in a week used pretty much only by myself and 1 (one!) other guy. That was cozy. Also, fuck CIA niggers who closed that shithole down because of the massacre bullshit or whatever. If you cannot stop some random fuck going bonkers with guns, your policing AND your gun laws are inadequate, NOT SOME WEB PLATFORM YOU IDIOTS.
>>15515 >What possible benefit would it have over 4chan at that point?
Pretty much nothing. It's ip to see how is it gonna be when it goes up, at the moment if i try to access https://8kun.net/ with VPN or Tor it gives me "Access Forbidden" "Remote DDoS Mitigation by VanwaTech", i didn't try with clearnet cause fuck that.
>>15594 To have your board up again you need to contact them directly, probably lot of board owners won't do that so some small unused boards are gonna be lost sadly.
>>15594 seems pretty surreal to not start a new board to scratch, so they will just keep some boards people have asked for, maybe with some luck they will put the other ones but empty
>if i try to access https://8kun.net/ with VPN or Tor it gives me "Access Forbidden" "Remote DDoS Mitigation by VanwaTech"
I'm pretty sure all of us see the same thing because 8kun isn't up yet. Try the useless "soon" page to see if you're blocked.
>>15601 I can see the soon page on tor. I think you're right in saying that the rest is just bloked for everyone regardless until it releases.
What we should ask ourself thou is: what are all those "countermeasures" they were talking about?
First thing i can see them doing is banning posting from vpn and tor like 4cuck did, so they can send to the fbi the ip addresses.
I don't know i don't trust jim or pigchan anymore tbh.
>>15594 >If you cannot stop some random fuck going bonkers with guns, your policing AND your gun laws are inadequate, NOT SOME WEB PLATFORM YOU IDIOTS.
actually, people have been killing each other since the beginning of time. there hasn't been a single year without a massacre somewhere in the world. this is a consequence of free will. the only real "solution" is getting rid of free will. any form of getting rid of guns wont fix anything either
>>15601 >I'm pretty sure all of us see the same thing because 8kun isn't up yet.
this. but seeing as they're using a cuckflare clone, this clone will probably block all Tor traffic as well because "security", meanwhile ignoring the fact that the only reason anyone uses that shit is for DDoS mitigation
>>15627 >this clone will probably block all Tor traffic as well because "security"
if Tor is blocked it's not because of vanwhatevers decision. It's decided by Jim, or more precisely by his new masters.
Even cuckflare currently has an option to allow Tor usage if the owner really wants to and it would really go against vanwhatevers business to restrict that. Of course """security""" is a good pretext but don't be fooled, Jim and his new friends know what they are doing.
>>15515 >>15601 >If that's true they'll pretty much lose all of their oldfags. What possible benefit would it have over 4chan at that point? It would actually be worse, because of the userbase
>If they would indeed block Tor and VPNs it would be a dealbreaker for me as well
Exactly, it would be cuckchan 2.0 only worse. I hope we're wrong and tor posting would be allowed.
>>15594 >>If the old 8chan with ALL the old boards is not going to be up, it's as good as dead to me. I used some cozy board with like a post in a day or in a week used pretty much only by myself and 1 (one!) other guy
I don't think there was chance in the first place for 8chan (if it will ever return at this point) to be exactly like it used to be. I bet 8kun will be full of Qtards boomers as this was the hill 8chan chose to die for, obnoxious polfaggotry.
I'm still bummed how I didn't even got to say goodbye to some BO of, attempted to be revived board. I hope he will claim his board like others, but I highly doubt since the board was quit dead for long time before the final death of 8chan.
>>15594 >If you cannot stop some random fuck going bonkers with guns, your policing AND your gun laws are inadequate, NOT SOME WEB PLATFORM YOU IDIOTS
People can kill in other methods, e.g.KyoAni arson attack.
The real issue no one talks about and keep sweeping under the rag is the lack of proper mental health service, because solving this problem actually demands effort, deep thought and resources. Since they're more people than ever and natural selection being minimized to almost non-existing, of course there would be a lot more mentally ill people that need to be taken care of.
>>15630 >lack of proper mental health service
People talk about that all the time. They fail to recognize it would change nothing. The problem, centrally, is that our whole society is set up around "freedom" for the express purpose of enabling small groups of true-believers to carry out revolutions. US guns laws are the extreme end of it, but the whole approach to anonimity online, of privacy in one's home and one's communications, and so on are historically justified because they enable dissent. There is little surprise then that dissenters can and do take advantage of it when carrying out attacks.
I think the correct perspective is to punish the perpetrators proper as harshly as we can (methods like torture and so on should be considered, for very extreme cases), and as publicly as we can. The (supposed) El Paso manifesto (that started this 8ch bullshit) said that he was planning on kiling himself afterwards. Did he? No, because he was a little bitch. And this is the problem: people who don't really believe in anything, who have extremely vague and idiotic beliefs, think that this is a fun thing to do, without being reminded of the consequences.
Maybe they have mental issues, but there is no reliable way to detect these, much less separate them from those who have mental issues but aren't killers. The fundamental premise of society is that you don't have to agree with everything others do, you just have to follow the laws. This premise is even more important for crazy people, who might disagree even with laws against murder: you don't need to agree with them, but if you break them you will be punished.
>>15855 >The problem, centrally, is that our whole society is set up around "freedom" for the express purpose of enabling small groups of true-believers to carry out revolutions. US guns laws are the extreme end of it, but the whole approach to anonimity online, of privacy in one's home and one's communications, and so on are historically justified because they enable dissent. There is little surprise then that dissenters can and do take advantage of it when carrying out attacks
If it was the case, mass shootings would've been recurring problem since the foundation of US.
>I think the correct perspective is to punish the perpetrators proper as harshly as we can (methods like torture and so on should be considered, for very extreme cases), and as publicly as we can
I am against torture, not because I think all people don't deserve it, but because it's corrupting, I wouldn't want to have such people in law enforcement. You are naive to think cruelty can be contained and aimed only at specific targets, just take look at how often dictatorial regimes try to conquer other countries. Never forget means doesn't justify the end, that's how you justify evil. However death penalty shouldn't be easily excused by mental illness.
>Maybe they have mental issues, but there is no reliable way to detect these, much less separate them from those who have mental issues but aren't killers
Which brings me back to my point of lack of proper mental health services. It doesn't matter as much to differentiate between potential murders to those who aren't than just simply track down those people and take care of them and track after their well being. Like I said previously it's easier said than done.
>>15855 >lack of proper mental health service
<People talk about that all the time. They fail to recognize it would change nothing.
There will be need for those as long as there's human, but tackling MIs by suppressing? the symptoms and not by eradicating the causes is as short-sighted as you can get and it's not like MIs and PIs are not widespread.
>our whole society is set up around "freedom" for the express purpose of enabling small groups of true-believers to carry out revolutions
I think it's very good trade-off. I don't want psycho-pass. The price for some faggot blowing up once a year and killing 3 people can never be the sense of freedom.
>torture
One of the few things I'm truly against. Death is just death, torture is manifestation of evil.
>people who don't really believe in anything, who have extremely vague and idiotic beliefs, think that this is a fun thing to do, without being reminded of the consequences
What consequences? It's usually either life-sentence or death. They all know the consequences. They don't even need to know the consequences to know they are what I said.
>>15857 >because it's corrupting
yes
>>15857 >mass shootings would've been recurring problem since the foundation of US.
Historical guns took a minute to reload. No way to commit a mass shooting with this. Early machine guns needed a separate person to feed the belt in. Only since modern automatic rifles have we seen mass shootings. The internet is another technology that makes these attacks more likely, also a very recent invention.
>I am against torture, not because I think all people don't deserve it, but because it's corrupting
I should clarify that by "torture" I mean corporal punishment, like caning, not driving bamboo under people's finger nails or evil things like this. I fail to see how this is any more "corrupting" than being able to imprison a person for 60 years at a time. The latter seems almost more evil given the choice, especially since it makes the negative effect of the punishment almost invisible.
>>15858 >There will be need for those as long as there's human, but tackling MIs by suppressing? the symptoms and not by eradicating the causes is as short-sighted as you can get and it's not like MIs and PIs are not widespread.
please expand "MI" and "PI". In general clean up the formatting of this sentence.
>The price for some faggot blowing up once a year and killing 3 people can never be the sense of freedom.
This is all it takes to let them steal your freedom? You are a fucking pussy, and deserve neither life nor freedom.
>Death is just death, torture is manifestation of evil.
This is a indicative of having way too much sympathy for the perpetrator of these attacks. You see the same misplaced sympathy from people who complain about "structural problems". There is but one structural problem, and that is that we go way too easy on these killers. It's also indicative of a misplaced sense of what the goal of punishment is. It isn't to teach the person a lesson, and certainly not because we think this will stop them from doing it again. It is as a deterrent for other people, to prevent them doing similar things.
>What consequences? It's usually either life-sentence or death. They all know the consequences
Remember that these people are (puportedly) mentally ill. If they were instead acting rationally, then there really wouldn't be anything we could do. But for people who are mentally ill, or otherwise acting irrationally, we have options. The basic problem is that many peope can't plan more than a week ahead at a time. If you threaten them with life in prison, they can't even being to imagine what that will be like. So they shrug it off and do the attack anyways. Then as the years drag on, they start to regret it, but it's too late. We need to close the feedback loop between committing the attack and recieving punishment for it. And, as part of using punishment as a deterent, we need to make the punishment as visible as possible.
Suppose on the wednedsay they report on the news about an attack that day. Investigators should collect evidence, eye witness reports, CCTV footage, the weapons used, in order to prepare for trial on thursday. Then the public broadcast of the torture and execution should be on friday. People who are still angry about the attack will tune in to watch the broadcast, if they don't have a tv then they'll stream it. Someone who had plans to do something similar the next wednesday will be standing outside the walmart or the synagogue thinking "in two days I could be writhing in pain and begging for the eventual end" and thinking twice.
There really isn't another response for the genuinely mentally ill. People seem to think that mental health treatments are a magic bullet. Actually, if you look at the history of killers, many of them had seen psychiatrists over and over to no effect. Modern psychology is good, but it relies substantially on cooperation of the patient. If they, for example, stop taking their meds, then there is nothing that can reasonably be done. We can try interning them, and when we know they've gone off meds this is often the response. But as I said, most mentally ill people will commit no crimes, certainly not anything more substantial then robbery. So if as a rule you commit people for going off meds, then you will be taking away the freedom of a substantial portion of people that are no harm to anyone. This is the real "corrupting" power: a person can be interned, indefinitely, with nothing but a mock trial, based on the ass-covering opinion of an overworked doctor. The main defense against this today is in fact funding: mental health institutions have no incentive to let people go, but they only have so much money, so the best cases get let out eventually.
But even assuming we could reliably hold them, we haven't actually solved anything. The mentally ill may be irrational, but they think they are rational. They only get put in front of a psychiatrist when they are damaging themselves or others. When they are well-off or high-functioning, this might not happen until after a horrific attack has happened, when it is too late. This is the problem with appeals to "mental health", it assumes that obviously everyone who ever killed more than 3 people at a time must have had obvious warning signs, present in no one else, since birth. There needn't be any warning signs, certainly not obvious or unique ones, until the result occurs. Trying to deal with mental health is like the people trying to ban video games or imageboards: it may have been present in a number of cases, it may even have been sufficient in a healthy portion of those, but if that is the only part of the problem you solve you will still have massacres, and have no idea why.
>Historical guns took a minute to reload. No way to commit a mass shooting with this.
>Only since modern automatic rifles have we seen mass shootings
=
>I don't know machine guns existed in the 1950's and people could legally own them.
wut?
CHILDREN used to take their RIFLES to school as part of CLASS or after school club - yet NO MASS SHOOTINGS!
Do you understand what this means??
The PEOPLE have CHANGED. N-O-T T-H-E G-U-N-S!
There are NON-Americans who don't UNDERSTAND or BELIEVE in the principles which founded the nation living in America and calling themselves 'American'.
>>15862 >caning
I don't get it.
>being able to imprison a person for 60 years at a time
Yeah, that's nice, that's what protestants gave us: death of mercy. First thing should be, if person in question has a piece of God left in his rotten, withering shell, to offer mercy; honourable death. I'd rather die if I were given 10-year penalty in early twenties than to spend my youth in prison.
>MI, PI
mental illness, personal disorder
>Death is just death, torture is manifestation of evil.
<This is a indicative of having way too much sympathy for the perpetrators of these attacks.
I still consider them humans but it's more about me having no desire to hurt them beyond necessity. What they did already happened.
>It is as a deterrent for other people, to prevent them doing similar things.
Prison sentence and death are not deterring enough?
>>15894 There were mass shootings in the 60s at the latest. It probably took until the first mass-shooter before people got the idea in their heads and started copying him. There's a Chapin song about the 1966 shooting that is very sympathetic to the killer. People probably heard the song and decided it was a good way to get sympathy. The worst part is they were right.
>>15900 >tackling mental illnesses by suppressing the symptoms and not by eradicating the causes is as short-sighted as you can get
What are the causes? Going by Chapin, a bad childhood caused the fellow from >>15902 to do what he did. Going by wikipedia, it was cancer. Both these things should be eradicated, but this is a decades long project. "Mental illness" isn't a disease like diphtheria that you can prescribe anti-biotics and have the problem go away. There are underlying causes, and skilled practioners are often incapable of unveiling them. Every psychiatric medicine has terrible side-effects, typically proportional to the disease they treat. And still these don't attack the cause. If someone is depressed because their mother died, prescribing prosac isn't treating the symptoms. So you can see why a patient wouldn't trust a psychiatrist: they paint over the real issue by prescribing treatments that are almost as bad as the disease itself.
Now we have the fellow from >>15902 again, who went to a doctor six months before the attack, complaining about "fantasies of shooting people from a tower". We think this is a drop-in case for better treatment of mental illness. In fact it is the exact opposite. Here we have a man who had complete access to treatment, for whom the doctor was as well informed as could be, and for which still no solution was brought up. The issue is that doctors still need to make judgment calls about who will commit attacks, and patients avoid internment by pretending to be a borderline case. Even where funding isn't an issue, you need patients to be as interested in a cure as society is. And for people like him, who would have died a painful year or two later from cancer anyways, how can you align those interests?
>Prison sentence and death are not deterring enough?
I think if you were someone who had nothing much to live for, you wouldn't see prison as such a terrible thing. You get consistent meals, books to read, and so on. Death, as above, might be sweet relief to some. But more than that, it's clear that the deterent isn't strong enough because people keep doing it. We know that punishment deters people, but we see that people aren't being deterred, so clearly we need to punish them more.
>>15905 >childhood
is not decades long project, and if it is, then one more reason to finally abolish democracy (and politics) which is useless anyway, real democracy is being able to influence your daily life and through that influence the life of society, not vice versa how it happens now which, shamefully, is needed to be done from the top in the beggining.
To give a little background to what follows: I'm not from poor family, but relatively unstable partly thanks to me being a little bit autistic. I never had abundance when it comes to material needs so I long time didn't get how can one risk or light-mindedly care for something I waited on for months or had one irreplacable piece of nor any real support in anything I did despite all saying I'm talented and that I'll once be great [insert]. Soon I found out, after bitter disappointment that was high-school and confrontation with friends from grad school who went on way better school than I did, that all I'm asking for is culture in daily life, nice-looking people, as diverse as possible (as long as it doesn't deny humane) and secured basic needs. Then there comes that I don't want to work years, waste my youth doing jobs I don't want to, jobs I don't want to exist just in order to do something better when I'm older or to sustain myself. You know, the muh struggle seems nice and interesting at first, but it's shit if you were born into wagecuck family hence why ancoms like Neumann quite literally speak to my very soul just like many local others from interwar period; if they weren't part of avantgarde and poets I wouldn't care though.
I found out that reading philosophy is luxury (or passion), something you do after there are conditions for that; both material(home, means, architecture etc.) and spiritual(friends, sense that you are doing actual good(which is only to achieve the end of purpose, everything you do then is good), love etc.). But I think I already touched this subject in another thread and I think it's self-evident why only communism can accomplish the above, especially the material needs provided by spiritual needs which in turn provide the spiritual needs. Just because it was hardly ever done right doesn't mean it can't be done right and it still accomplished things which no democratic regime can ever even dream of. I don't really know why it ended as bad as it ended; you had guys like Passolini and Mayakovsky, first respected and who denied architectural nonsense of workers' housing, second respected and who was pyrrhic υγρό πυρ: yet it were the ones who were in it for personal gain, who worked hard for years for nothing but power and to be above and the ones who were in it for belief, pure in heart, were overlooked, ignored, capitalized on and killed. I still don't get it. Mayakovsky is probably the most unique person I know of. I can't imagine meeting him and actually staying sane, the same. He was embodied The Revolution; his birth, his childhood, his puberty, his maturity; there's no such thing for he was born The Revolution, with halo of Lucifer, sapphire fangs, wings made of sound and tongue made of drumskin.
But for real: causes? I don't know, it depends on the case. Some were probably born like that.
>Even where funding isn't an issue, you need patients to be as interested in a cure as society is. And for people like him, who would have died a painful year or two later from cancer anyways, how can you align those interests?
Support what's beautiful in him.
>I think if you were someone who had nothing much to live for, you wouldn't see prison as such a terrible thing. You get consistent meals, books to read, and so on.
I essentially live in prison yet I wouldn't want to end up there, if only for celibate which I'm in. On the other hand there are at least coherent socializing structures.
>We know that punishment deters people, but we see that people aren't being deterred, so clearly we need to punish them more.
Then you should think about what I wrote 'bout it.
>>15909 Btw you mentioned incentives in some other thread, that they are what gets job done. I think so too, but it's intrinsic, natural incentives that provide emotions which in turn can be turned into personal betterment.
>>15909 >Then there comes that I don't want to work years, waste my youth doing jobs I don't want to, jobs I don't want to exist just in order to do something better when I'm older or to sustain myself.
Wow the meme that commies are just fucking lazy and want muh gibs and welfare just to slack around all day is real.
kys goes in all fields
>>15911 I'm pretty much the virgin confucian, so yeah, I am lazy.
Nevertheless I think you oversimplify too much. The jobs I can do and do are morally wrong and psychically incredibly draining, doesn't matter how I look at it and so are most of the others.
>>15912 >The jobs I can do and do are morally wrong and psychically incredibly draining
excuses, excuses, excuses.
if you can write poetry, sell poetry.
>inb4: nooooooo, selling poetry is immoral
if you don't want to sell it directly, find rich patron, that's how artist used to do in the past
the world doesn't care about what you think is immoral
>>15913 >excuses
50/50
>sell poetry
I don't know where to buy or read poetry from local and contemporary poets. Last time I saw something local it was some shit by local nazi about how muh gypsies are ruining their life because they live secluded few kilometers away from the town in question.
1. make pgp public key
2. make a pseudonym that you will use as pen name with pgp key
3. make thread about poetry on nanochan and every imageboard or forum that you like
4. sign your poems with gpg and previous public key + pseudonym
5. publish your poems in these threads, add at the end of each poem BTC, ETH and XMR addresses to receive donations
6. slowly make a name for yourself, try to keep it on the mysterious side and be really controversial, that will help
7. sell pgp signed autographed limited editions of poems to whoever wants to buy them, this limited editions should be numbered and signed uniquely
8. become le ebin darknet rebel poet
9. become rich and famous like banksy
10. don't forget about nanochan when you are rich and famous
I don't think someone would ever buy a poem or support someone with "an unique point of view" these days. Sounds something just old, kind or normal people would do. Ideas are not even worth something anymore as they can be instantly copied.
This gets very frustrating for young moneyless poets such as myself. Yet I think it's a good think because it obliges to diversify and mostly write scripts for visual novels or movies or whatever.
It's kinda nostalgic how much the whole physical book biz is meant to be forgotten and inminent rn
my bones are filled with pneumamarxist before I read marxNo.15935[D][U][F]
>>15931 >write scripts for visual novels or movies or whatever
That's nice, but in my country it's pretty hard to get this kind of stuff printed, hell, I have problem to get minor philosophical works merely because they are both out of print and not present in second-hand shops. They are expensive when sold normally and overpriced when in second-hand shops too. Libraries have 18415215 of pulp shit yet they throw out and reduce their philosophical departments because muh we have to justify our existence. I could borrow some books from nearby another libraries, but that's quite a hassle and useless when reading greeks, nonfic and philosophy; you return to those books, cite etc, you use them, you don't consume them.
>>15931 you can't know until you try, the rest are excuses
if you really want you can change step #7 of my guide in:
7. sell paperback limited editions of poems to whoever wants to buy them, this limited editions should be numbered and signed uniquely
you can still put your pgp signature in printed books, it's just more difficult to print stuff and less anonymous so i recommend just following my guide for darknet poets version 2019, maybe there are proxy services that print books anonimously idk
So what's the deal with this Nick Lim guy and what connections does he have to BitMitigate and DoD? Why did VanwaTech use DoD IP addresses?
Also, he announced that he was starting a new CDN company on 6th of August, just after 8chan was taken down. Now 8chan seems to be his only major customer. What's going on?
>>16232 >So what's the deal with this Nick Lim guy and what connections does he have to BitMitigate and DoD?
>BitMitigate
He created both BitMitigate and VanWa Tech. He sold BitMitigate to Epik earlier this year.
>DoD
That's just from FUD from retards who do not understand how services like this work. They buy cheap servers from a bunch of different vps hosting companies. They typically do not own very many ips / servers in for a specific host. Since it's a CDN they try to spread out there severs as much as possible.
>>16265 >DoD
>That's just from FUD from retards who do not understand how services like this work.
You are either a retard or a glow. DoD is not a cheap VPS provider.
>>16274 I'm just saying that why would AlibabaCloud route to "DoD routers" for some small customer with no complaints yet.
The only data the "DoD" could collect is IP addresses. You can easily get these by just asking Jim himself to turn them over.
The DoD could have started allocating some of the 11.0.0.0/8 (that means any address starting with 11) they own to other people.
I suppose 8chan will not be taken down again.