WikiLeaks Secret Cable: "Overthrow The Syrian Regime, But Play Nice With Russia"

Hours after the overnight US-led missile strikes on Syria, WikiLeaks republished a crucially important diplomatic cable through its official media accounts confirming that Saudi Arabia's long term strategy in Syria has been to pursue regime change "by all means available." According to the leaked internal Saudi government document, this is the kingdom's proposed end-goal even should the United States at any point show "lack of desire" due to the threat of Russian response and possibility of a 'great power' confrontation. 

With American lawmakers and media pundits already urging President Trump to escalate and sustain attacks against Syria, it must be remembered that close US allies like Israel and Saudi Arabia have long coordinated to create the conditions that might tip the US administration toward full military action resulting in regime change in Damascus. And more recently, fresh off his weeks-long tour of the US, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has both slammed previous proposals of US troop withdrawal in Syria and declared eagerness "to work with allies on any military response in Syria if needed."

It is also essential to recall that the al-Qaeda linked group which originated the claims of a government orchestrated chemical attack on civilians in the Damascus suburb of Douma, called Jaish al Islam (JAI), is and has always been state sponsored by the Saudi regimeThe Guardian, among others, reported beginning in 2013 that Saudi Arabia founded and trained the group, spending millions. 

Secret Saudi cable produced by WikiLeaks: Saudi Arabia "must seek by all means available and all possible ways to overthrow the current regime in Syria" even should the United States at any point show "lack of desire."

Notably, as Russia as well as some Western counter-terror experts continue to point the finger at Jaish al Islam (and the "White Helmets") for staging the Douma "chemical attack" in order to provoke the US military response, it has emerged through past reporting that JAI itself had used chemical weapons against Kurdish militias in Aleppo’s Sheikh Maqsoud district in 2016 (and it appears that the Saudi-backed group openly admitted to carrying out prior chemical attacks according to The Daily Beast).

Given this current context and the continued rapid unfolding of the crisis, the previously leaked 'secret' Saudi memo published by WikiLeaks takes on new significance and meaning: did the Saudis finally trigger their "by any means available" scenario (a 'chemical incident') at a moment when their proxies were collapsing in the face of overwhelming Syrian Army victory? 

The below article and translation was originally authored by Brad Hoff in 2016 for WikiLeaks and Foreign Policy Journal, and is used here with permission.  

* * *

Secret Intel Memo: Overthrow the Regime “by all means available”

A WikiLeaks cable released as part of “The Saudi Cables” in the summer of 2015, now fully translated here for the first time, reveals what the Saudis feared most in the early years of the war: Russian military intervention and Syrian retaliation. These fears were such that the kingdom directed its media “not to oppose Russian figures and to avoid insulting them” at the time.

Saudi Arabia had further miscalculated that the “Russian position” of preserving the Assad government “will not persist in force.” In Saudi thinking, reflected in the leaked memo, Assad’s violent ouster (“by all means available”) could be pursued so long as Russia stayed on the sidelines.

The following section of the leaked cable is categorical in its emphasis on regime change at all cost, even should the U.S. vacillate for “lack of desire”:

“The fact must be stressed that in the case where the Syrian regime is able to pass through its current crisis in any shape or form, the primary goal that it will pursue is taking revenge on the countries that stood against it, with the Kingdom and some of the countries of the Gulf coming at the top of the list. If we take into account the extent of this regime’s brutality and viciousness and its lack of hesitancy to resort to any means to realize its aims, then the situation will reach a high degree of danger for the Kingdom, which must seek by all means available and all possible ways to overthrow the current regime in Syria. As regards the international position, it is clear that there is a lack of ‘desire’ and not a lack of ‘capability’ on the part of Western countries, chief among them the United States, to take firm steps…”

Amman-based Albawaba News—one of the largest online news providers in the Middle East—was the first to call attention to the WikiLeaks memo, which “reveals Saudi officials saying President Bashar al-Assad must be taken down before he exacts revenge on Saudi Arabia.” Albawaba offered a brief partial translation of the cable, which though undated, was likely produced in early 2012 (based on my best speculation using event references in the text; Russia began proposing informal Syrian peace talks in January 2012).

Russian Hardware, a Saudi Nightmare

Over the past weeks Saudi Arabia has ratcheted up its rhetoric on Syria, threatening direct military escalation and the insertion of special forces on the ground, ostensibly for humanitarian and stabilizing purposes as a willing partner in the “war on terror.” As many pundits are now observing, in reality the kingdom’s saber rattling stems not from confidence, but utter desperation as its proxy anti-Assad fighters face defeat by overwhelming Russian air power and Syrian ground forces, and as the Saudi military itself is increasingly bogged down in Yemen.

Even as the Saudi regime dresses its bellicose rhetoric in humanitarian terms, it ultimately desires to protect the flow of foreign fighters into Northern Syria, which is its still hoped-for “available means” of toppling the Syrian government (or at least, at this point, permanent sectarian partition of Syria).

U.S. State Department Confirmation

The U.S. State Department’s own 2014 Country Report on Terrorism confirms that the rate of foreign terrorist entry into Syria over the past few years is unprecedented among any conflict in history:

“The rate of foreign terrorist fighter travel to Syria–totaling more than 16,000 foreign terrorist fighters from more than 90 countries as of late December–exceeded the rate of foreign terrorist fighters who traveled to Afghanistan and Pakistan, Iraq, Yemen, or Somalia at any point in the last 20 years.”

According to Cinan Siddi, Director of the Institute for Turkish Studies at Georgetown’s prestigious School of Foreign Service, Russian military presence in Syria was born of genuine geopolitical interests. In a public lecture recently given at Baylor University, Siddi said that Russia is fundamentally trying to disrupt the “jihadi corridor” facilitated by Turkey and its allies in Northern Syria.

The below leaked document gives us a glimpse into Saudi motives and fears long before Russian hardware entered the equation, and the degree to which the kingdom utterly failed in assessing Russian red lines.

* * *

A full translation of the text

THE BELOW is an original and authenticated translation of the WikiLeaks file published as part of "The Saudi Cables."  Note: the cable as published in the SaudiLeaks trove appears to be incomplete. Its accompanying pages have yet to be located within the massive trove of leaked Arabic documents. 

[…] shared interest, and believes that the current Russian position only represents a movement to put pressure on him, its goals being evident, and that this position will not persist in force, given Russia’s ties to interests with Western countries and the countries of the Gulf.

If it pleases Your Highness, I support the idea of entering into a profound dialogue with Russia regarding its position towards Syria*, holding the Second Strategic Conference in Moscow, working to focus the discussion during it on the issue of Syria, and exerting whatever pressure is possible to dissuade it from its current position. I likewise see an opportunity to invite the head of the Committee for International Relations in the Duma to visit the Kingdom. Since it is better to remain in communication with Russia and to direct the media not to oppose Russian figures and to avoid insulting them, so that no harm may come to the interests of the Kingdom, it is possible that the new Russian president will change Russian policy toward Arab countries for the better. However, our position currently in practice, which is to criticize Russian policy toward Syria and its positions that are contrary to our declared principles, remains. It is also advantageous to increase pressure on the Russians by encouraging the Organization of Islamic States to exert some form of pressure by strongly brandishing Islamic public opinion, since Russia fears the Islamic dimension more than the Arab dimension.

In what pertains to the Syrian crisis, the Kingdom is resolute in its position and there is no longer any room to back down. The fact must be stressed that in the case where the Syrian regime is able to pass through its current crisis in any shape or form, the primary goal that it will pursue is taking revenge on the countries that stood against it, with the Kingdom and some of the countries of the Gulf coming at the top of the list. If we take into account the extent of this regime’s brutality and viciousness and its lack of hesitancy to resort to any means to realize its aims, then the situation will reach a high degree of danger for the Kingdom, which must seek by all means available and all possible ways to overthrow the current regime in Syria.

As regards the international position, it is clear that there is a lack of “desire” and not a lack of “capability” on the part of Western countries, chief among them the United States, to take firm steps […]

*[in the Arabic text: Russia, but this is a typo]

Comments

D.T.Barnum Sat, 04/14/2018 - 21:48 Permalink

-I realized that it would have been better if Hillary was elected.  If Hillary was elected, an organized grassroots right/libertarian movement of patriots would have been formed.  Instead, we have faux-conservative Trump taking up the space, like a black hole, sucking everything into it; as we sit around with our thumbs up our tuchus wondering how badly he is going to let us down. 

The true patriots (not ones that are "nationalists and globalists" like Trump) all became splintered and confused as we argue over how retarded his next tweet is.  "Bombard them with bullshit."  Before the last crisis can be analyzed there's already a new one.  I'm telling you this guy is one big ( extremely successful, so far) psyop, he's doing exactly what he has been installed by the deepstate to do: give false hope, divide, confuse, and conquer.

P.S. - Ignore TMosley, he believes in the official 9/11 narrative.  "Sometimes muslims just want to kill infidels" was the qoute IIRC. He is just a troll looking for attention, like Trump.

beepbop D.T.Barnum Sat, 04/14/2018 - 21:48 Permalink

Pointing fingers at the Saudis is ALL DISINFO!

The Saudis have NOTHING to gain from destroying Syria.

ONLY Israhell benefits!

Satanyahoo is the one who pushed TRUMP for the bombing and dictated to the US Congress and the UN he wants to DESTROY Iran as well.

“No matter what the price, we will not allow Iran to have a permanent [military] foothold in Syria. We have no other choice." - Israeli Murder Minister, Avigdor Lieberman.

 

Artist's IMPRESSION of Satanyahoo RIDING Trump

 

That "original and authenticated translation" is straight from the Israeli Mossad basement. 

LOL

In reply to by D.T.Barnum

beepbop Stuck on Zero Sat, 04/14/2018 - 23:02 Permalink

More DISINFO.

Why wouldn't Assad agree to the pipeline? He'd get paid for every gallon that passes through, especially since Syria barely has any oil, unlike Saudi Arabia.

Besides, Russia has NO SAY in Syria's pipeline projects. Russia is doing just fine in Europe with plenty of pipeline going all over the place. A pipeline in Syria would require more transportation by ships to Europe, hence more expensive.

Again. More Disinfo.

In other words, Assad would risk his life, his family, his presidency, his country for a freakin pipeline?

Jeez!

Were Iraq and Libya for pipelines as well?

Nope.

It's all for Israhell. To weaken and destroy its "perceived enemies" and create Greater Israhell.

In reply to by Stuck on Zero

RabbitOne HowdyDoody Sun, 04/15/2018 - 07:54 Permalink

So why is it happening?  If there is no profit, Neocons could care less what Syria does to their own people. For example why has Trump not sent a missile attack on North Korea to wipe out its nuclear capability and research? Because it has no resources to make it profitable like Syria!  If there was no possible gas pipeline from Saudia Arabia to Europe  or dollars to be had, the West would not care what Assad does.

Then there is all the oil sitting under Syria. Hansel and Gretel left a trail of breadcrumbs to follow to get home. There is a new oil deposit which is in the Israeli occupied part of Syria. The overthrow of Syria would legally justify this investment scheme. If there is one thing I have learned about politics, just follow the money to find the truth.

Since there was no Russian blood flowing people will believe this Middle East thing is all over - wrong! It has just been raised up a notch.

Russia and Iran will respond asymmetrically to U.S. and Isreali provocations. First they will get the Iraqi government to boot out the Americans which Trump is all to willing to oblige. Next they will promise Turkey they can have their way with U.S. ally the Kurds. Then they will foment revolution in Saudi Arabia. They will use the lagging economy and Shia population in KSA and raise the stakes by supplying the Shia in Yemen with more sophisticated Russian and Chinese weapons aimed at Saudi Arabia . This does two things, removes a great rival for Iran and disrupts oil supplies which helps Russia. Saudi Arabia is the lynch pin for the U.S. in the middle east and will experience civil war much like what Syria is going through now. China will go along with this as it paves the way for the new petroyuan. Sorry but we should have backed out of the Middle east as Trumped promised rather than prodding them with a stick...

In reply to by HowdyDoody

shovelhead Pinot-Noir Sun, 04/15/2018 - 11:50 Permalink

So when is the Ohio Valley going back to the Iroquois ? Enemy land taken in combat goes to the victor, unless signed back under treaty. That didn't happen.

That's why it sucks to lose. That you, or anyone else don't like it doesn't change a thing. If you really need to blame someone, look no further than the Sikes-Picot treaty. No Jews would be there in the first place.

Just keeping it real.

In reply to by Pinot-Noir

FBaggins Stuck on Zero Sun, 04/15/2018 - 01:41 Permalink

There is a long history of the Zioist Middle East plan using money, war, treachery and terrorism beginning even before Balfour in 1917. By 1948 plan was was for a much larger Israel than what was planted.  It is a long process using the same methods.  Pipelines are the incentive for the Western powers to share in the spoils, but the major motive is the expansion of Israel. The pre-war insurgency of Syria to divide the people, create unrest, was mainly Israel, US and UK led and supported. To destabilize a nation and divide people they always use gobs of money, and incite violence and unrest. Of all the nations violating Syria, Israel, we have witnessed is the most persistent and aggressive its efforts to escalate the war, and pipelines through Syria for Golan oil is very low on their totem pole compared to the so-called additional "buffer zone" which they want from Syrian territory.  They want a big hunk of the southern Syrian province of Daraa. After the war they want a Rothschild central bank ensconced in Syria to control its finances, and they intend to have many of the perks in the rebuilding projects. From there they intend to extend their "influence" and unrest  toward Iran. Money talks and the main objective is Israeli expansionism, not protectionism. 

In reply to by Stuck on Zero

Conscious Reviver FBaggins Sun, 04/15/2018 - 02:49 Permalink

That's a great summary. The chosen want their Leiben's Raum.

As far as the Saudis and the rest of the poor Gulf oil states that can't get their pipeline thru Syria - They could have gone thru Iraq to Turkey and on to Europe if they were not so stupid as to support the destruction of Sadam and Iraq. Sadam was a Sunni ruler. They could have worked out a deal. But now, the Iraq government is aligned with Iran, a country the Gulf states try to demonize.

In reply to by FBaggins

Count Cherep FBaggins Sun, 04/15/2018 - 10:12 Permalink

JEWISH CONTROL OF SAUDI ARABIA

Reportedly, the Saudi monarchs and their Wahhabi religion have Jewish origins.

Wayne Madsen has written about the Jewish connections to Saudi Arabia.

...

According to Madsen:

The Turkish Ottoman Empire, which included key parts of Saudi Arabia, had lots of crypto-Jews (Jews pretending to be Moslems)

These crypto-Jews (also called Donmeh) have connections to the Saudi royal family and Saudi religion.

The Saudi follow the Wahhabi form of Islam.

Reportedly, the founder of the Saudi Wahhabi sect of Islam, Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab, was a crypto-Jew.

Read the rest:

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2011/11/jewish-control-of-saudi-arabia.ht…

Note: The earlier Aangirfan site was shut down by their web host and is no longer updated. Here is their current site:

http://aanirfan.blogspot.com/

In reply to by FBaggins

Count Cherep eatapeach Sun, 04/15/2018 - 12:10 Permalink

eatapeach: Suleiman sounds a lot like Solomon...

Count Cherep: Indeed —

Solomon? –
The Emperor With No Clothes

Supposedly, an Israelite empire flourished in the 10th century BC, during a time of temporary weakness of both Assyria and Egypt. Yet the fabled empire of David and Solomon remains just that: a fable, unsupported by any evidence – and empires normally leave a great deal of evidence. Archaeology is unequivocal: there was never the wealth, population, political cohesiveness, or literacy in the tiny settlement around Jerusalem to have ever dominated its more developed northern neighbours.
...
New Evidence of "Solomon" – from Assyria!

Lower portion of stele of a Royal Assyrian Shamshi-Adad V (824-811 BC).

Cuneiform inscription confirms "cedars of Lebanon" cut for temple of the god Shulmânu.

"I ascended the Lebanon mountains and cut down the mighty beams of cedar. At that time I carried those cedars from Lebanon and at the gate of the temple of Shulmânu, my lord, I laid them down.

The old temple which Shalmaneser, my father, had built, had become decrepit, and I, in my skill, rebuilt that temple from its foundations to its pinnacles.

The beams of cedar from Lebanon I laid on it.

When this temple becomes old and decrepit, may a future prince renew its decrepit parts and return the inscription to its place."

Shalmaneser III (859-824 BC) was named for the god Shulmânu-Asharêd ("shulmânu is foremost").

Shalmânu is the Assyrian equivalent of Suleiman and thus Solomon.

Read the rest:
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/solomon.htm

http://kennysideshow.blogspot.ca/2012/10/no-more-myths.html

 

In reply to by eatapeach

silver140 Stuck on Zero Sun, 04/15/2018 - 02:17 Permalink

It is about pipelines. But it's who owns the pipeline and who sells the gas that goes through it. Iran and Syria will build a pipeline and sell their gas to Europe. The US/NATO and their saudi/ gulf state arabic death cult islamic fascist stone age misogynistic pedophile rapist slaver allies would rather have it all for themselves, hence the destruction of Syria.

In reply to by Stuck on Zero

el buitre Conscious Reviver Sun, 04/15/2018 - 10:31 Permalink

Major Cabal ops always have multiple objectives, but there is usually one over riding one.  For example, with 9/11 one has terrorizing of the American sheeple, the theft of billions of dollars of gold under the Towers and bearer bonds, the destruction of the Constitution, the destruction of the financial records of the TRILLIONS of dollars in unaccounted Pentagram money, a huge human sacrifice to their god, Lucifer, and I could go on and on.  But the primary reason for the ops was to kick off the wars in the middle east with the end goal of recapturing control of Russian, which the idiot neocons lost after Yeltsin died.

In reply to by Conscious Reviver

Wild E Coyote not-me---it-wa… Sun, 04/15/2018 - 00:52 Permalink

Is there no one out there to praise Trump for doing a bomb raid without killing a single Syrian?

Trump had to follow democracy and majority decision. That is to uphold the false narrative pushed by majority of American leaders, media, foreign allies,  in support of Israel or Saudi or whatever. Agree?

The people did not send petition or conduct protests. Just a few comments here and there. And thus we do not really know what the majority Americans think. Agree?

So, Trump did it in his usual unusual style. Throwing ugly unbelievable tweets in support of the false narrative indicating how foolish it all is. 

And Trump killed no one. Please for fuck sake do not dare compare him to Hillary who killed Americans in Bengazi, or Obama who drone killed American citizens. 

In reply to by not-me---it-wa…

bkboy Wild E Coyote Sun, 04/15/2018 - 01:36 Permalink

While I appreciate that there may be a silver lining to the missile launch (i.e., that apparently nobody died), I believe it still marks the first time that the U.S. has used military force against a sovereign nation which: (1) was not at war with the U.S. (2) did not attack the U.S. or any ally of the U.S.  Really, this was unprecedented and, if anybody had been killed, I believe international law, if the western countries ever actually applied it to their own conduct, would require that it be held to be a war crime.

In reply to by Wild E Coyote

WTFUD Jack Oliver Sun, 04/15/2018 - 10:04 Permalink

'they' as in Deep State, JO?

Who they gonna foist on us in his place?

One of these days Americans are going to grow a pair ( not too politically incorrect, i hope ) and Hold The Swamp To Account. The only thing preventing this are the misguided factions who are unable to see through the 3 card monte of the Two-For-One-Party-Paradigm.

In reply to by Jack Oliver

tmosley El Oregonian Sat, 04/14/2018 - 22:23 Permalink

Peanutz better read this before they take a step down and become clownz.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ZQG9cwKbct2LtmL3p/evaporative-cooling-o…

Early studiers of cults were surprised to discover than when cults receive a major shock—a prophecy fails to come true, a moral flaw of the founder is revealed—they often come back stronger than before, with increased belief and fanaticism.  The Jehovah's Witnesses placed Armageddon in 1975, based on Biblical calculations; 1975 has come and passed.  The Unarian cult, still going strong today, survived the nonappearance of an intergalactic spacefleet on September 27, 1975.  (The Wikipedia article on Unarianism mentions a failed prophecy in 2001, but makes no mention of the earlier failure in 1975, interestingly enough.)

Why would a group belief become stronger after encountering crushing counterevidence?

The conventional interpretation of this phenomenon is based on cognitive dissonance.  When people have taken "irrevocable" actions in the service of a belief—given away all their property in anticipation of the saucers landing—they cannot possibly admit they were mistaken. The challenge to their belief presents an immense cognitive dissonance; they must find reinforcing thoughts to counter the shock, and so become more fanatical.  In this interpretation, the increased group fanaticism is the result of increased individual fanaticism.

I was looking at a Java applet which demonstrates the use of evaporative cooling to form a Bose-Einstein condensate, when it occurred to me that another force entirely might operate to increase fanaticism.  Evaporative cooling sets up a potential energy barrier around a collection of hot atoms.  Thermal energy is essentially statistical in nature—not all atoms are moving at the exact same speed.  The kinetic energy of any given atom varies as the atoms collide with each other.  If you set up a potential energy barrier that's just a little higher than the average thermal energy, the workings of chance will give an occasional atom a kinetic energy high enough to escape the trap.  When an unusually fast atom escapes, it takes with an unusually large amount of kinetic energy, and the average energy decreases.  The group becomes substantially cooler than the potential energy barrier around it.  Playing with the Java applet may make this clearer.

In Festinger's classic "When Prophecy Fails", one of the cult members walked out the door immediately after the flying saucer failed to land.  Who gets fed up and leaves first?  An average cult member?  Or a relatively more skeptical member, who previously might have been acting as a voice of moderation, a brake on the more fanatic members?

After the members with the highest kinetic energy escape, the remaining discussions will be between the extreme fanatics on one end and the slightly less extreme fanatics on the other end, with the group consensus somewhere in the "middle".

And what would be the analogy to collapsing to form a Bose-Einstein condensate?  Well, there's no real need to stretch the analogy that far.  But you may recall that I used a fission chain reaction analogy for the affective death spiral; when a group ejects all its voices of moderation, then all the people encouraging each other, and suppressing dissents, may internally increase in average fanaticism.  (No thermodynamic analogy here, unless someone develops a nuclear weapon that explodes when it gets cold.)

When Ayn Rand's long-running affair with Nathaniel Branden was revealed to the Objectivist membership, a substantial fraction of the Objectivist membership broke off and followed Branden into espousing an "open system" of Objectivism not bound so tightly to Ayn Rand.  Who stayed with Ayn Rand even after the scandal broke?  The ones who really, really believed in her—and perhaps some of the undecideds, who, after the voices of moderation left, heard arguments from only one side.  This may account for how the Ayn Rand Institute is (reportedly) more fanatic after the breakup, than the original core group of Objectivists under Branden and Rand.

A few years back, I was on a transhumanist mailing list where a small group espousing "social democratic transhumanism" vitriolically insulted every libertarian on the list.  Most libertarians left the mailing list, most of the others gave up on posting.  As a result, the remaining group shifted substantially to the left.  Was this deliberate?  Probably not, because I don't think the perpetrators knew that much psychology.  (For that matter, I can't recall seeing the evaporative cooling analogy elsewhere, though that doesn't mean it hasn't been noted before.)  At most, they might have thought to make themselves "bigger fish in a smaller pond".

This is one reason why it's important to be prejudiced in favor of tolerating dissent.  Wait until substantially after it seems to you justified in ejecting a member from the group, before actually ejecting.  If you get rid of the old outliers, the group position will shift, and someone else will become the oddball.  If you eject them too, you're well on the way to becoming a Bose-Einstein condensate and, er, exploding.

The flip side:  Thomas Kuhn believed that a science has to become a "paradigm", with a shared technical language that excludes outsiders, before it can get any real work done. In the formative stages of a science, according to Kuhn, the adherents go to great pains to make their work comprehensible to outside academics.  But (according to Kuhn) a science can only make real progress as a technical discipline once it abandons the requirement of outside accessibility, and scientists working in the paradigm assume familiarity with large cores of technical material in their communications.  This sounds cynical, relative to what is usually said about public understanding of science, but I can definitely see a core of truth here.

My own theory of Internet moderation is that you have to be willing to exclude trolls and spam to get a conversation going.  You must even be willing to exclude kindly but technically uninformed folks from technical mailing lists if you want to get any work done.  A genuinely open conversation on the Internet degenerates fast.  It's the articulate trolls that you should be wary of ejecting, on this theory—they serve the hidden function of legitimizing less extreme disagreements.  But you should not have so many articulate trolls that they begin arguing with each other, or begin to dominate conversations.  If you have one person around who is the famous Guy Who Disagrees With Everything, anyone with a more reasonable, more moderate disagreement won't look like the sole nail sticking out.  This theory of Internet moderation may not have served me too well in practice, so take it with a grain of salt.

In reply to by El Oregonian

dirty fingernails tmosley Sat, 04/14/2018 - 22:31 Permalink

So you mean like insisting there is a genius 4D chess strategy that nobody but the initiates (priests) can understand. Huh, sounds very familiar. You're getting emotionally invested in this to the poibt, I think you should seriously take a break. We are all under a lot of pressure right now, and though I argue with you, I don't want to see you flame out. Log off, go get a drink and fuck the wife. Chill, brother.

In reply to by tmosley

Giant Meteor tmosley Sat, 04/14/2018 - 23:18 Permalink

Mosely. why all the chest beating? Look, this shit is going to go on and on, one way or another. I try to avoid the prediction business mostly, Mosely.

Very telling no? And predictive! Bolton in ..

Mission Accomplished declared .. Success boy's success!

No Russian, Syrian, Isis, Donkey, Camel, Non existent chemical factory on trumped up evidence hurt in the making of this movie! Hoorah, Good deal ! Genius .. take a fucking bow already for Christs sake !

I mean it's almost like they're fucking with people eh?

But I tell you now, just the mere usage of that particular phrase, no matter the motivation, or lack of motivation, gaff probably not ,, but in light of what IS known, that is to say, a part of the well established record ..

To use that particular term, takes a particularly twisted, demented, twisted, sick fucko mind. And while one can debate whom. what or anyone at all suggested the repeat utterance of imbecilic and biblical proportions, maken no fucking difference ..

Frankly if I were the predictive type, as good as you, I say it was likely Boltons gnarled claws moving seamlesly up Trumps ass , to make his lips move. A bit of good ole neo CON payback for all those years of bad press on those other endless debacles ..

But hell I'm not that good, nor cynical ..

Nah, couldn't be ..

And by the way, I figured we'd still be here in the mornin too ..

But that is hardly the fooking point eh ?

Lastly, needing constant validation , for being "correct" or not, in anything, is a serious emotional handicap, but take comfort, you're not alone.

In reply to by tmosley

tmosley Giant Meteor Sat, 04/14/2018 - 23:35 Permalink

Predicting the future is testing your understanding of the world. You can't understand the world without such tests.

>I say it was likely Boltons gnarled claws moving seeamlesly up Trumps ass , to make his lips move.

Trump surrounds himself with people who hold opinions and perspectives that are different from his own. He challenges them. Posted a link to a Freakonomics interview earlier. You should listen to it. Talked about Trump's process. http://freakonomics.com/podcast/awesome-terrible-tax-cuts-part-1/ Relevant part starts at 20:43.

>Lastly, needing constant validation , for being "correct" or not, in anything, is a serious emotional handicap, but take comfort, you're not alone.

I don't need validation. I need ARGUMENTS. All I get around here is ramblings from delusional bastards who don't know up from down. At least that is the case lately. An opponent who can accept when he is wrong and actually change his mind is worth a million dollars. If I don't beat them down and humiliate them, more people will join them and they will form a cult, and that will be the end of the comment section. Have to find another place to talk geopolitics that isn't an echo chamber. Know of no such place.

In reply to by Giant Meteor

Giant Meteor tmosley Sun, 04/15/2018 - 00:16 Permalink

Hat tip you you on a balanced non emotional response. Also some good points in there. Ah yes, herd and cult like behavior. Safety in numbers. Not unnoticed are long gone commentors of yesteryear (or last week) who've fled the place like a burning Syrian chemical factory, existent or not.

As to Mr. Trump, never been a fan, ever. Nothing personal. Not of his style, his brand, business practices, nor keen intellect. Definitely not a fan of the Apprentice, show boating, gargantuan ego, lack of self awareness, truthful hyperbole, his university, various alliances, affiliations, pandering, ghost written books and or speeches (other than his inagural which he did not write) ... nothing personal.

Folks claim GW Bush was/is a likeable feller up close, kinda guy one might enjoy knocking one back with, if he did that sort of thing. I thought he was an asshole too.

Ditto for Hill and Bill and Bobo ..

We don't need another hero Mosely, no more than we need another cult ..

I'll take a gander at the link you provided, especially "the relevant part" and get back to you. Heh, you never know, I might just become a convert, although probably not ..

And by the way, echo chambers and cults cut both ways ..

Sad thing is, those engaged or invested in that sort of thinking, are definitely the last to see it, if ever at all, convinced of course in "the righteousness of the cause.* Obviously many feel the need to convince other's in repetitve rants, comments, postings, so those misguided other's may one day too , become "enlightened."

Oh, and I've got a few predictions too , it's just that, sometimes, as the wise have always known, it is oft times best to keep one's own counsel, and if one must seek wise counsel of others, probably best to not rely on those already proven failures at providing it ..

In reply to by tmosley