Bernd
03/21/2021 (Sun) 19:30:46
No.43054
del
03/21/2021 (Sun) 19:30:46
No.43054
del
>>43044
They had the German Bund which essentially replaced the HRE after Napoleon. It was like weird EU with half the rulers having lands outside of it. Not just the Habsburgs and Hohenzollerns , but the Danish and British monarchs too.
I know Bohemia and Moravia was in the Bund as part of the Austrian Empire. But not Hungary. While Bohemia was a kingdom technically, it was integrated into the imperial government. With Hungary the situation was different. When the Habsburgs gained the Hungarian crown in the 16th century (we had a couple of Habsburg kings before that) our country was in an unfortunate situation when it was torn into three pieces, and lost lots of prestige and power. Since then a continuous power struggle went on, with a central role of the Transylvanian princes, who were often vassals of the Habsburgs themselves in some other way. Basically it was the question of centralization. The kings wanted to integrate the control of Hungary into the imperial administration - it was already subordinated to it anyway - but our nobility pulled the other end of the rope, struggling for more influence, preserving their ancient rights, sometimes bringing the whole thing to independence fights. So we remained more or less autonomous.
Even Joseph II's reforms were torpedoed by the Hungarian nobility (Joe weren't our king, only was elected, never crowned, he refused to do that, it would equaled for him as an acknowledgement that his lands aren't a whole unit).
Anyway for the Habsburgs being the emperor was the day job, being the Hungarian king was a hobby next to it. But a hobby they couldn't stop. The reality for the people was that the two countries were treated independently, that's what they felt, so Austrians didn't care what happens here (and they supported the changes here that could have helped them), since we were bunch of non-Germans anyway (despite the large number of burghers of German origin). But what they didn't spend any thought of the independence of the other lands, which were "Austrian" for them. I guess.
Btw I found an article about "what Austrians think of 1848". Essentially nothing. Not just for it's a footnote in their history, but because their identity isn't historically based, like ours, but it's built on their current rights and stuff like that. Their identity starts with their republic. It could very well be, that an average Hungarian learns more about the Habsburgs then them.
They had the German Bund which essentially replaced the HRE after Napoleon. It was like weird EU with half the rulers having lands outside of it. Not just the Habsburgs and Hohenzollerns , but the Danish and British monarchs too.
I know Bohemia and Moravia was in the Bund as part of the Austrian Empire. But not Hungary. While Bohemia was a kingdom technically, it was integrated into the imperial government. With Hungary the situation was different. When the Habsburgs gained the Hungarian crown in the 16th century (we had a couple of Habsburg kings before that) our country was in an unfortunate situation when it was torn into three pieces, and lost lots of prestige and power. Since then a continuous power struggle went on, with a central role of the Transylvanian princes, who were often vassals of the Habsburgs themselves in some other way. Basically it was the question of centralization. The kings wanted to integrate the control of Hungary into the imperial administration - it was already subordinated to it anyway - but our nobility pulled the other end of the rope, struggling for more influence, preserving their ancient rights, sometimes bringing the whole thing to independence fights. So we remained more or less autonomous.
Even Joseph II's reforms were torpedoed by the Hungarian nobility (Joe weren't our king, only was elected, never crowned, he refused to do that, it would equaled for him as an acknowledgement that his lands aren't a whole unit).
Anyway for the Habsburgs being the emperor was the day job, being the Hungarian king was a hobby next to it. But a hobby they couldn't stop. The reality for the people was that the two countries were treated independently, that's what they felt, so Austrians didn't care what happens here (and they supported the changes here that could have helped them), since we were bunch of non-Germans anyway (despite the large number of burghers of German origin). But what they didn't spend any thought of the independence of the other lands, which were "Austrian" for them. I guess.
Btw I found an article about "what Austrians think of 1848". Essentially nothing. Not just for it's a footnote in their history, but because their identity isn't historically based, like ours, but it's built on their current rights and stuff like that. Their identity starts with their republic. It could very well be, that an average Hungarian learns more about the Habsburgs then them.