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Palemoon blacklists NoScript Anonymous 05/12/2018 (Sat) 03:01:36 [Preview] No. 12708
As the subject says. It's been entered into their custom "bitch at the user with a popup until they disable it" database. To be fair to the developer, he has solid reasons for his stance. I'll try to summarize as there is a lot of misinformation and emotion out there fogging the issue.

1) The Palemoon project does not have enough developer juice to debug other software and addons.
2) Various users: "[website] does not work with Palemoon. Fix your shit, Moonman!"
3) Moonman: "Known issue. Stop being morons and disable NoScript. Thank you, and have a nice day."
4) Various users: "We did. Same problem. Fix your shit."
5) Moonman: "Oh. That's an actual issue with Palemoon then. I'm on it!"
6) Much hacking and cracking and time and talent are expended to no effect. Surprise! NoScript does not follow the standard of letting go of the browser when disabled. It lingers on. It has to be completely uninstalled with an added cache clearing operation on top of that.
7) Moonman: "It's NoScript. Get rid of it. Have a nice day."
8) Various users: "No. FIX YOUR SHIT!"
9) Moonman: "Crush. Kill. DESTROY!"

If you roll with my simplification you can see his point.

I have two observations. First, quite a few sites have a technical support checklist that runs like this: "What browser are you using? Palemoon? Oh good! We have two fixes you may choose from. One, use another browser. Two, go away and do not come back."

My irony sense is tingling.

Second observation. While understandable, M.C. Straver's hissyfit behavior is stunningly reminiscent of none other than the creator of NoScript, Giorgio Maone. I am speaking of the legendary extension war between Adblock Plus and NoScript. Mr. Maone learned his lesson and humbly carried on, much to his credit. The impression I get from Mr. Straver is not so favorable. In any event, I do not have the time to await some developer's philosophical enlightenment, nor the fortitude to scale the wall Mr. Straver threw up against public user feedback, be that feedback soberly measured or otherwise.

So, I would like to hear from the community. There are a few options I am not willing to entertain, although I do not mind people discussing them in thread.

1) Tor bundle. I already use it and am happy with it, but not for all my web traffic.
2) Just replace NoScript with uMatrix and keep Palemoon. Not a bad idea, but not going to happen.
3) IE. Lawl. Last time I used IE by choice was at version 4.
4) Firefox. Today, I view FF versus IE as a distinction without difference. Which is why I moved to Palemoon.
5) Chrome. No. Just ... no.

What browser would you recommend as a replacement?

And now, the current contender list.

1) 64 bit systems: Waterfox.
2) 32 bit systems: Dunno. This is going to be a problem for me.

Anonymous 05/12/2018 (Sat) 03:38:00 [Preview] No.12709 del
>Just replace NoScript with uMatrix and keep Palemoon.
Yes do this.
>Not a bad idea, but not going to happen.
Why? It's a must have addon.
Also yes. The 52. build before the recent changes is still supported and is stable.

Anonymous 05/12/2018 (Sat) 12:00:04 [Preview] No.12710 del
NoScript is a usability problem (many sites don't work without JS because of the webmasters' choice or incompetence) that PM doesn't want to troubleshoot; PM have decided to label it a security/stability problem (misleading/dishonest).
NoScript actually reduces security/stability problems by blocking things that could be malevolent or buggy.
If it really were a stability problem, PM should want to fix it or work with NoScript to fix it.

Waterfox has been working well for me; Vivaldi also, although it's Chrome instead of Firefox so it might be a problem if you need/want a specific add-on.

Anonymous 05/12/2018 (Sat) 13:15:20 [Preview] No.12712 del
Any reason to use uMatrix over noScript? I've tried uMatrix a ton of times but I just do not like the interface when compared to noScript, and they both appear to do the same thing.

I think that webbrowsers are all fubar at this point. They all have some hindrance or issue to them. Chrome and some of their forks imo, work the best in a general sense but the ability to customize them, the way their extensions work and the fact that it's got Google's finger prints all over it keep me from using them.
Do the Mozilla fork developers ever get together and have like some sort of conference or anything? Given that they've all worked on all sorts of deprecated versions of the program at some point you think they'd have a lot of collective knowledge to share with the public about how the browser works and why they do what they do.

do people really think that it would be Palemoon's fault for websites, especially modern websites, not functioning at all without JS running? Most commercial sites nowadays I just get a white screen if the top level is blocked. I don't think that's a browser issue mate.

It's good to ignore certain people I guess but the way he went about doing it doesn't seem to be the most honest thing.
>PM doesn't want to troubleshoot

Anonymous 05/12/2018 (Sat) 16:25:10 [Preview] No.12713 del
(83.25 KB 791x719 2345756857.jpg)
>waaaaah palememe hurt muh fee fees so it's baaaaaaaaad software
This is literally fucking nothing, just like the whole adnausum situation

Anonymous 05/12/2018 (Sat) 16:40:25 [Preview] No.12714 del
OP here.

>Just replace NoScript with uMatrix and keep Palemoon.
>Yes do this.
>Not a bad idea, but not going to happen.
>Why? It's a must have addon.

I agree certain addons are must haves, NoScript being one of them.

uMatrix is merely duplicating the functionality of a variety of other mature addons I already use. At worst, it will be both a learning curve and trust building issue that I can ill afford at the moment. At best ... well. There is an old saying: "don't get your meat where you get your bread." If you understand the adage you should also see why I do not view uMatrix as a simple panacea, even should it deliver on all promised.

uMatrix is on my list of things to be studied for a future project. Now is not the time.

Aside from that, Palemoon has some deficiencies I was willing to tolerate. Their stance on NoScript tipped the balance in favor of further exploration.

>Also yes. The 52. build before the recent changes is still supported and is stable.

Poor language choice on my part. If my problem was exclusively with Firefox I would not use Palemoon either, being based as it is on Firefox. Right? My actual problem is with the Mozilla Foundation. Operating their legacy product is simply delaying the inevitable through courting a dangerous principal. I did so for far too long, dithering along with FFv54. No point in going back now.


I am mostly in agreement here. I prefer severely breaking website functionality in an obvious way for a more informed choice, and finer control, over ease of use. With some fiddling, most everything can be made to work with NoScript, provided one is tolerant cosmetic oddities.


Most informative. At the moment I believe all the bad behavior can be disabled. Requiring a user to make an extra effort to do so is not right, but for now I am willing to make the effort and continue testing Waterfox.

Anonymous 05/12/2018 (Sat) 16:59:03 [Preview] No.12715 del
You don't need to study how to use umatrix, it's really one of the easiest fucking addons to use.
It's as simple as green = go, red = stop
Seriously, just download it and take 5 seconds to look at it and you'll figure the whole thing out.

Anonymous 05/12/2018 (Sat) 18:08:28 [Preview] No.12716 del
More and more websites are using "loading" screens for some reason, and most of the elements are display:none until fully loaded and the js changes it. All this without any "javascript is required for this page to function properly" message. I think the currently popular UI kits (like bootstrap styles) are the one to blame here.

NoScript also has a very unintuitive pop-up interface:
>Allow http://endchan5doxvprs5.onion
>Forbid http://endchan5doxvprs5.onion
For the first time, it is not clear whether these are actions or statuses. Especially when you consider the icons next to them.

I can imagine how hard to troubleshoot this. But the way it is explained at http://blocklist.palemoon.org/info/?id=pm112 doesn't help anyone.

Anonymous 05/12/2018 (Sat) 19:42:16 [Preview] No.12717 del
fuck you, blacklisting addons is retarded bullshit, just like HSTS and IDN lists.

Anonymous 05/13/2018 (Sun) 06:17:23 [Preview] No.12720 del
<another browser thread

Anonymous 05/15/2018 (Tue) 06:34:35 [Preview] No.12722 del
seamonkey just updated on my work computer (without asking I am flabbergasted) all of my add-ons still work though, which is surprising.
Only difference insofar as I can tell is it no longer just downloads stuff I tell it to download it asks where I want to download it each time which is a rather useless procedure.
It's still probably the best option for me at work on a windows computer.

Anonymous 06/20/2018 (Wed) 13:47:53 [Preview] No.12802 del
I'll hold on to and be using my 6 year old Mozilla browser then, because I will be using noscript while browsing the web: no ifs, ands, or buts.

Anonymous 07/05/2018 (Thu) 08:08:54 [Preview] No.12823 del
2) 32 bit systems: Dunno. This is going to be a problem for me.

Not a problem for me. I use either text mode browsers. Dillo. or older versions which probably have a lot of security issues but I'm not worried about that seeing as the times I browse on those systems are old already. I don't feel like going through the mess and compiling my own version of firefox or whatever. But there is RetroZilla which is quite nice.

Anonymous 07/05/2018 (Thu) 16:23:46 [Preview] No.12824 del
OP again. I noticed the thread flying by on the overboard. May as well drop my final observations.

I use Lynx with some regularity for ssh sessions, etc. In the year of our Lord 2018, a fully useful command line webbrowser still surprises the hell out of the Mircosoft wonks I come across. Nevertheless, a 32 bit system is no barrier to a desktop GUI, M$ or otherwise.

The end result was Waterfox for my 64 bit systems, and Icecat for my wee 32 bit on-the-road portable. The privacy tweaking learning curve was minimal and everything is running smoothly and to my satisfaction. Palemoon is a distant memory at this point. While this was an excellent thread all in all, I don't have anything else to add to the discussion and won't waste any more time on Palemoon related activities.

Thanks everyone!

Anonymous 07/24/2018 (Tue) 03:53:46 [Preview] No.12847 del
Palemoon is cucked a long time ago, I only use it as a secondary browser.

btw ungoogled-chromium superior

Anonymous 07/31/2018 (Tue) 14:46:46 [Preview] No.12851 del

Been doing UGC for a test drive for some time now. The only irritations I've found so far:

1) No way to conveniently prevent automatic page refreshing.
2) Installing extensions is a bit of a hassle.
3) No non-M$ 32bit version

Only that last is really irksome. Why no 32bit version?

Anonymous 08/01/2018 (Wed) 13:33:07 [Preview] No.12852 del

It also enforces tear off tabs with no way to disable. Something else I hate.

Anonymous 08/25/2018 (Sat) 11:13:21 [Preview] No.12862 del
>no 32bit version
Rather no x86 version. You should've ditched x86 a long time ago.

Anonymous 10/09/2018 (Tue) 12:07:18 [Preview] No.12904 del
>adnausum situation
What ever happened to that? It was making the rounds awhile back and people just stopped talking about it. I tried using it but it was broken as fuck and wouldn't work on my setup so I forgot about it.

Anonymous 10/24/2018 (Wed) 06:39:43 [Preview] No.12919 del
Reading his thread is enough to not want to use palemoon like ever again

Anonymous 07/09/2019 (Tue) 22:58:40 [Preview] No.13359 del
(22.27 KB 323x248 noscript1.jpg)
(24.06 KB 251x417 noscript2.jpg)
>2018 thread...... sorry
'Member when noscript had a sane UI? Now it's a bubbly UI that forces you to restart after every change. I always used to select my temp permissions then click restart near my address box. Can't do that anymore. It also had many features and settings no longer available in the newer releases. Does anyone know the benefits of using noscript over uMatrix? I know noscript is designed for javascript but uMatrix can block those too.
I'm not saying the old noscript was the best or better than uMatrix. In fact uMatrix is better and its UI is very intuitive and gives you total control, modern noscript does not. What happened?

Anonymous 07/10/2019 (Wed) 22:19:52 [Preview] No.13360 del
(64.37 KB 220x107 NoScript in action.gif)
Saw this flying by the other day on the overboard. Ah, the thread that would not die. May as well stop by. Anyway, original OP here. For what it's worth.

>Does anyone know the benefits of using noscript over uMatrix?
The gist of it is that uMatrix merely blocks items, while NoScript also injects and replaces various classes of problematic functionality. Because of this, NoScript can make certain sites and services work more smoothly and consistently while still blocking the crap with safe(er) replacements.

As detailed in the original post, the problem with this method being NoScript can't really be turned off and will affect how the browser renders a site even while disabled. It's the nature of the beast.

>I'm not saying the old noscript was the best or better than uMatrix.
Yes, of course. But, people seem to have some preconceived notions about how things should work thus driving much of the controversy in choosing which technology one must adopt.

A historical perspective may be of some use here. Giorgio Maone's path being evil at the same time as coeval with the development and deployment of much of the browser and server technology we take for granted today. While he could anticipate and elegantly solve many iffy aspects of web browsing as the scene unfolded, most of his work was devoted to crushing nasty-issue-after-nasty-issue, often mind-bendingly esoteric and unrelated, over and over, one after another. Often this was done in the face of actively hostile web service providers (and not merely site operators) who would (and still do) settle for nothing less than absolute control over the browser, and much more.

The result of this epic evolutionary arms race is what NoScript became. While Mr. Maone deserves all the credit or blame for what he has done, it's not his fault things turned out as they have. That is to say, in a certain very real sense, NoScript was made by the opposition.

What I have found today is our latest generation of the technically inclined have enough trouble coming to grips with all of what is, and making it work. What was, and why, may amuse some at best. When confronted with something like NoScript that violates so much of what they have painfully learned, it's instantly tagged as a problem instead of a solution.

Let's try an analogy. uMatrix is a simple and straightforward school crossing guard who will do things one of two ways. She will let the kids enter the intersection, or not. If she says "Go!" they might jay-walk across, or run screaming into a car slowly approaching the intersection, but none of that is her concern. Usually, kids just cross the road as you would expect them to, and life moves on to bigger and better things.

NoScript is a brutal marine sergeant. He'll haul the kids across the intersection by the collar and plant them on the other side safely. However, if they look to try anything stupid he might just break their legs first. Or, on seeing someone approaching the intersection, he might pull random drivers out of their cars and bust some heads in for no discernible reason. It's ugly, and no-one understands why he does what he does, but hey, none of the kids ever died on his watch.

>The interface sucks ass! What happened?
I too dislike the new NoScript interface. Like it or not, NoScript was repackaged for mass appeal. Mass appeal means regular people, not just the (old or new) technically inclined. It is what it is.

Anonymous 07/12/2019 (Fri) 07:50:07 [Preview] No.13361 del
I just hate since I switched to irridium that there is nothing, that I have found comparable to noscript and I'm kind of stuck with umatrix. There's scriptsafe but it's interface is leagues worse than noscript in the ui department and you just end up reloading exponentially more then you ever had to with noscript.

>NoScript is a brutal marine sergeant
this. I remember years ago when a friend recommended noscript to me and I had literally no idea wtf was goin on when I installed it. slowly but surely I grasped it's tenets and embraced the corps. Maybe I should drop my autistic grudge of pale moon and give it another shot, it's been years.

What. The. FUUUUUUUUU 09/21/2020 (Mon) 13:09:14 [Preview] No.14306 del
OP ... still here. Status update: I ran with uMatrix (among other addons) and back to Palemoon x32 & x64 in the end.

And now a word from our sponsor:

"Raymond Hill, known online as gorhill, has set the status of the uMatrix GitHub repository to archived; this means that it is read-only at the time and that no updates will become available."

NoScript forevah again?

Anonymous 09/21/2020 (Mon) 22:16:52 [Preview] No.14307 del
I would prefer the Marine sergeant instead. Not my problem in site operators and web providers want to know everything about me.

>I just hate since I switched to irridium that there is nothing,

What about Maxthon? is it good

Anonymous 09/21/2020 (Mon) 22:17:22 [Preview] No.14308 del
Apart from Palemoon, is there another browser that would be recommended from this board?

Anonymous 09/22/2020 (Tue) 07:31:29 [Preview] No.14310 del
Well, there seems to be some awareness and positivity for non-gui command line browsers. Lynx and the like.

UnGoogled Chromium is also viable. What the project needs a little more of are system package manager repositories. Even more so, extension management killed my enthusiasm. However, the "chromium-web-store" appears to have finally solved that problem. At a guess, UGC would probably be our board's other recommendation for general use.

Anonymous 09/23/2020 (Wed) 05:36:52 [Preview] No.14315 del
>for non-gui command line browsers. Lynx and the like.

Not so good with that
>T. noob

>UnGoogled Chromium is also viable

Having some trouble installing that in my machine. Tried it in another machine, but it just kept crashing on me for no reason. No tab would keep a stable connection

Anonymous 09/24/2020 (Thu) 19:45:12 [Preview] No.14320 del
>various issues

Dunno. I ran UGC for a few months with a variety of annoyances, but absolutely none of the issues you are seeing. The question was what would this board recommend, of which my reading of the board suggests a pretty limited short list of browsers are acceptable, a la spyware.neocities.org. Personally, I'm a lot more flexible with my own choices, although I have to spend some time changing the internal settings and getting the right addons for other less-than-perfect privacy degraded browsers. And, in any event, I came back around to Palemoon.

Oh, and, in a bit of a facepalm moment, it turns out I've been using nMatrix on all but one of my PM installs. Not uMatrix. So my entry bitching about the status of uMatrix is all of a nothing burger. Apparently there's been viable forks of uMatrix having gone mainstream for a long time now. Like, long before Raymond Hill's announcement. So, with that admission, it's time to get me back to derping about on dese interwebz...

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