>>46684
China in ww2, Moscow in the Napoleonic wars, Paris in the Hundred years war, civil wars of course and there are probably many more examples. But that's not important.

>My point was: if it's to close to avoid and then just let the Russians in there, then we could say it is unavoidable for Ukraine to be defeated so why not just give up - let's start at the end, and skip the prelude. I know you did not mean like that, I did not misunderstand you.

That's not really a good Idea for Ukraine though, because they should actually want to fight in the capital, they should want urban fighting, they should want another Grozny(or multiple Groznys). That and it's also not in their best interest strategically in other ways as well, if they give up Kiev they will be pushed back to the next urban area and the further they are pushed back the more likely it is that the Russians could intercept east to west communications. If that happens they are in big trouble and they won't be able to get any equipment from Nato sent to the east either.