Bernd
03/27/2022 (Sun) 23:02:07
No.47085
del
03/27/2022 (Sun) 23:02:07
No.47085
del
>>47075
>I doubt Ukrainians negotiating in good faith. Zelensky and co. was probably told to drag things as long as possible (they're gonna have a free ride out secured if things gets too hot anyway), so western/US companies can earn on the wartime boom. Besides now that many Russian companies are done in large part of the world, westerners have to take their places and earn more.
>Yes, whatever was their intention and original goals, after Western media campaign they can't accept anything less then total victory or it can be turned into prestige loss, no matter how large would be the gain. Actually, we are told that the steps Western powers took are devastating so whatever the result will be, we will be told Russia lost the war.
Even if Zelensky wanted to accept a reasonable deal (e.g. accepting Russian control of the Donbass and Crimea, abandoning the idea of joining NATO and some minor internal changes), he could get immediately overthrown if the Ukrainian elite or military brass think they can still fight. On the other side, Putin has no reason to accept moderate gains if he has reason to think Western sanctions wouldn't significantly weaken - if he's getting harsh sanctions one way or another, he might as well push for the largest possible gains. Both tendencies lead to a long and bitter war.
>>47082
> There are dozens of videos showing civilians being publicly punished and humiliated by an assortment of soldiers, police, para-militaries, civilian mobs, and whatnot. Children and women are also being mistreated like this. The reasons are simply unknown but there are many accusations and speculations: alleged theft or desertion, lurking outside in curfew, being pro-russian, a separatist, speaking russian in public, etc.
In part that's just the nature of total war, which requires the repression of draft dodgers, disturbers of public order, deserters, defeatists, apologists for the enemy, potential fifth columnists, enemy infiltrators and so on. States will enforce that very brutally if they feel the need to. But it's not just that, it's also hate.
>I doubt Ukrainians negotiating in good faith. Zelensky and co. was probably told to drag things as long as possible (they're gonna have a free ride out secured if things gets too hot anyway), so western/US companies can earn on the wartime boom. Besides now that many Russian companies are done in large part of the world, westerners have to take their places and earn more.
>Yes, whatever was their intention and original goals, after Western media campaign they can't accept anything less then total victory or it can be turned into prestige loss, no matter how large would be the gain. Actually, we are told that the steps Western powers took are devastating so whatever the result will be, we will be told Russia lost the war.
Even if Zelensky wanted to accept a reasonable deal (e.g. accepting Russian control of the Donbass and Crimea, abandoning the idea of joining NATO and some minor internal changes), he could get immediately overthrown if the Ukrainian elite or military brass think they can still fight. On the other side, Putin has no reason to accept moderate gains if he has reason to think Western sanctions wouldn't significantly weaken - if he's getting harsh sanctions one way or another, he might as well push for the largest possible gains. Both tendencies lead to a long and bitter war.
>>47082
> There are dozens of videos showing civilians being publicly punished and humiliated by an assortment of soldiers, police, para-militaries, civilian mobs, and whatnot. Children and women are also being mistreated like this. The reasons are simply unknown but there are many accusations and speculations: alleged theft or desertion, lurking outside in curfew, being pro-russian, a separatist, speaking russian in public, etc.
In part that's just the nature of total war, which requires the repression of draft dodgers, disturbers of public order, deserters, defeatists, apologists for the enemy, potential fifth columnists, enemy infiltrators and so on. States will enforce that very brutally if they feel the need to. But it's not just that, it's also hate.