Whatever you do don't cut your dick and plan ahead for when you lose your drug induced femininity so you don't kill yourself.

t. >>/cuteboys/

>>2891
You just cured me of any notion of ever doing this. Thank you based anon.

>>2891
Jesus

>>2891
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10508-012-9975-x
At the surface level it seems like psychiatrists are confident that these types of interventions work but looking deeper into their statements reveals a pretty horrifying truth. Specifically these 2 quotes:
" The quality of evidence pertaining to most aspects of treatment in all subgroups was determined to be low; however, areas of broad clinical consensus were identified and were deemed sufficient to support recommendations for treatment in all subgroups." Or in other words: "we know there isn't substantial evidence that this works and definitely not enough to fulfill the standards that other medicine is held to but we're going to keep going through with it anyway".

"For some important aspects of transgender care, it would be impossible or unwise to engage in more robust study designs due to ethical concerns and lack of volunteer enrollment. For example, it would be extremely problematic to include a 'long-term placebo treated control group' in an RCT of hormone therapy efficacy among gender variant adults desiring to use hormonal treatments." or in other words: "Even though this common practice everywhere else in medicine and in some cases even more ethically tedious since people who are dying will need to specifically go without medicine that could save them, we are going to not actually carry out studies that would show the truth because the truth is probably very inconvenient."

>>2889
>yudkowsky can paddle you
>cuddle with scott
I thought this board was AGP turf, not HSTS territory.

>>2910
> I thought this board was Accelerated Graphics Port turf, not HTTP Strict Transport Security territory.

wat

>>2911
There are two kinds of trannies. Come back when you've learned what they are.

>>2911
Read https://everything2.com/title/Blanchardian+Taxonomy and >>2306.

>>2919
>>2918
Not that guy but why should I care.

>>2922
HSTS is associated with homosexuality, AGP isn't. AGP is supposed to be most common among people with high IQs and some other traits that are common in the Rationalist Community™.
The prevalence of transitioning in the Rationalist Community™ is assumed to be because of a high prevalence of AGP, but the motivation for transitioning expressed in the OP is associated with HSTS.

There is literally nothing more high IQ than slicing off your cock to fuck aging yids.

>>2923
There's an idea I've seen floating around chans that AGPs can be "pseudobi", or attracted to the idea of being in a relationship with a guy so that they feel more feminine. Maybe Ozy wrote something about it? Don't remember.
At any rate I don't care for Yudkowsky and Scott is not cute enough for me to cuddle with him.

>>3030
I wish I could sperg as hard as Big Yud.

https://facebook.com/yudkowsky/posts/10154078468809228
>Still, for people roughly similar to the Bay Area / European mix, I think I'm over 50% probability at this point that at least 20% of the ones with penises are actually women.
>t. Big Yud
Is this wishful thinking? Serious question.

>>4889
>Highly autistic and weird social groups have a lot of trans people in them
>This means that the entire population has a similar level of transness
Come on, Yud. Get it together. You're supposed to be the smartest cult leader in history, not jewish Neil deGrasse Tyson.

>>4889
>SF
>Portland

I'm sure this will generalize to other places. These are representative samples, right?

>>4890
If I remember correctly, there used to be a significant correlation between autism and homosexuality, which diminished as homosexuality became more accepted. The likely reason was that autistic people are less likely to hide it, not that the actual rates are different from neurotypicals.
I don't think I'd put my confidence as high as 50%, but it's completely consistent with his hypothesis for it to be visible in weird places without truly being more prevalent in those places.
There's an implicit assumption that the environment only affects visibility, not the underlying condition.

>>4892
"At least 20%" is very high, though. It is hard to believe it was that high even 50 years ago, whereas it is easy to believe ~1% of men was homosexual in 1968, 1918 or 1868. Something must have happened.
>>4889
>people came out as FtM, after which it "spread like wildfire"
Compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria.

>>4893
What % of 5th century BC Athenians were homosexual pedophiles?

>>4893
>"At least 20%" is very high, though.
He's using an inclusive definition that includes people who feel too weakly female for any transition to be worth it. People who would, all other things being equal (even things that can't be equal), prefer a female body.
Even then, 20% intuitively seems on the high side for the general population, but it's plausible for some communities. So maybe.
>It is hard to believe it was that high even 50 years ago, whereas it is easy to believe ~1% of men was homosexual in 1968, 1918 or 1868. Something must have happened.
Would you have thought the same thing 50 years ago?
It's very obvious in retrospect that a lot of homosexual people existed, but that's taking current data into account. I think I would make a much lower estimate if I only had the common knowledge of 50 years ago.

>>4896
Good point.
New poll:
https://poal.me/n7j92m
You can add answers to this one.

>>4893
see also: behavioural sink, emotional contagion, transgender propaganda, groupthink…

>>4889
EY is projecting the image of tranny sexual prey onto regular men to feed his growing sadistic appetite.

What is the naturalist's approach to this transgender absurdity? Isn't there a more cost, time and energy effective method of treatment, such as real therapy and psychiatric medication?

Maybe the Bay Area progressivism got to him, for all his apolitical pronouncements, he drank the "gender is a social construct" kool-aid and hasn't steelmanned the notion that trannies are just deluded people with cognitive distortions and faulty (irrational, epistemically incoherent, unnaturalistic) beliefs.


"We find that whole communities suddenly fix their minds upon one object, and go mad in its pursuit; that millions of people become simultaneously impressed with one delusion, and run after it, till their attention is caught by some new folly more captivating than the first."


https://sillyolme.wordpress.com/faq-on-the-science/
rftbk/masculinity-anime-and-gender-dysphoria-8d682abcec54">https://medium.comrftbk/masculinity-anime-and-gender-dysphoria-8d682abcec54
http://unremediatedgender.space/2017/Feb/if-other-fantasies-were-treated-like-crossdreaming/

>>4899
Wow, that anime/AGP article hit pretty hard. Do you have more? Nobody talks about this apart from the rare halfchan post.

>>4901
only some shocking statistics
https://libraryofhate.com/category/25

>>4901
>>4902
Actually now that I think of it, porn and internet addiction cause lasting (but reversible) changes to the brain, especially the reward centers (desensitisation, hypofrontality, sensitisation, stress-response changes, etc.) leading to an increasing change in tastes seeking novelty

https://www.scribd.com/document/348230501/FTND-Harmful-Effects-of-Pornography-s-10915-pdf

https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/research-articles-and-abstracts

I haven't looked very far into the hormonal effects, but there's obviously some relationship between jerking off to BBC POV or hentai all day and hormone profiles

>>4899
>>4901
The hard constructivist "nobody is naturally submissive" and "women don't shape masculinity" angle is really weak. The latter in particular amounts to creationism.

>>4903
Please don't link to Scribd.

>>4899
>rftbk/masculinity-anime-and-gender-dysphoria-8d682abcec54">https://medium.comrftbk/masculinity-anime-and-gender-dysphoria-8d682abcec54
>Not to excuse any of the misogyny coming from guys like this. Women didn’t do this to them, and women aren’t responsible for fixing the issue.
Retarded author
>>4904
This.

>>4889
It is, he likely just gets off to dominating white males who transitioned.

>>4901
AGP may be a meme, but for homosexual transgenders there is a clear fMRI picture of female limbic system which they share with gay men. See http://www.pnas.org/content/105/27/9403

Also that article is dumb because it assumes no sexual dimorphism in human brain and innate behavior which is clearly not true via mane experiments, see http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/

TLDR Homo men and Homo->MtFs have feminine brain core, gay lifestyle and hrt/transitioning may be just different coping styles, or mtfs have some additional not yet found modifications.

That being said hrt us just hrt and it should not be a political thing to modify one's body this way or that way. AGPs are a meme.

>>4899
>hasn't steelmanned the notion that trannies are just deluded people with cognitive distortions and faulty (irrational, epistemically incoherent, unnaturalistic) beliefs

Well you don't steelman ideas that get you unpersoned in your in-group.

>>4897
the results so far

>>4909
5 votes for cismale and 4 votes for AGP fetish. To be honest I voted cismale but I've jerked off before to imagining I'm one of the girls in a yuri manga, so should I have voted for the AGP fetish too? It's one of the more 'out there' faps for me, the kind of thing I do when I've already fapped 2 times that day and I'm searching for less vanilla material.

>>4904
when a male is submissive it doesn't mean they're somehow magically a girl on the inside.

the idea that women shape masculinity is a bizarre, where masculinity is about freedom and self-definition, submission and feminisation are the total opposites. women might impose slight selective influence over mates, but they look for qualities that the man developed himself. otherwise the advice given by women would be useful in attaining a mate, and single motherhood would produce well-adjusted men. but neither of those are the case

Examples of masculine virtues include: ambition, diligence, persistence, endurance, accountability, bravery, confidence, commitment, assertiveness, defiance, punctuality, discipline, focus, determination, fortitude, loyalty, honesty, dependability, justice, honor, majesty, orderliness, restraint, steadfastness, chastity and wisdom.

>>4908
the trade-off would be social utility over epistemic rigour, nigga needs to take the outside view

>>2889
>not being a femboy who HRTs himself to become even more valuable to his rich hot daddies
meh plebs

>>4911
a "slight selective influence"? No. When women are free to choose partners their preferences determine which men reproduce and which don't. Those preferences naturally tend towards not wisdom and commitment but assertiveness and not giving a fuck (independence) unless wise men who commit have high status. Women reward (instinctively, not deliberately) certain kinds of behavior in men with sex, encouraging it. This is how they shape masculinity.

You should read Heartiste and Jim starting with https://blog.jim.com/culture/all-women-are-like-that/.

>>4914
I think you're giving too much weight to what women reward. When a man chooses to become assertive, dominant and high status they gain more benefits than just women liking them. Women counter-signal bodybuilding (e.g. "I love dad bods"), assertiveness ("just be a nice guy") and other positive male traits because the way they control men is by being the only option the man can get, and hold the man in the friendzone to exercise that control ("hey can you please help me move some furniture? OMG thanks you're such a great guy").

Assertiveness and dominance is control over women, not rewarded by controlling women.

I'm familiar with Jim and Heartiste, as well as other general redpill concepts/writings

>>4910
>should I have voted for the AGP fetish too?
There is an easy test.
1. Go to Sad Panda
2. male:"gender bender" yuri
3. ???
4. PROFIT?
This may actually be a bad idea. Sorry if it harms you.

>>4916
Well I just went and read '(C89) [Noraneko-no-Tama (Yukino Minato)] Tsuitenai Shoujo [English]' (I forgot to copy-paste the yuri part when I searched). It was pretty decent but it would have been about equally enjoyable without the initial hook of the loli having transformed from an adult man. I guess I like imagining myself as pre-existing girls rather than actively gender-bending or transforming or whatever.
>Sorry if it harms you.
Thank you for your consideration anon.

>fully two thirds is not confidently cis
>nobody is outright trans
>nobody was born female
>recommendations for reading include scientific studies, redpill blog posts, radfem blog posts, and gender bender yuri
Yep, that's /ratanon/

>>4926
This post gave me in-group warm-fuzzies.

I now trust the results less.

>>4970
Why? Order of options hasn't changed much, and given intersection of 8ch and rat demographics looks about right.

>>4971
anon

it's because there's an AFAB listed now

as anyone in the ratcomm knows, the only girls here are (((catgirls)))

>>4973
Why did you even add AFAB as an option then?

>>4975
It's the lizardman option, for contrarians. I unironically think the chances of there being an AFAB here are less than 1%.

>>4976
I know that there are AFABs who are at least aware of this place. Ozy replied on Tumblr to the allegations made about them in here.

>>4977
>Ozy replied on Tumblr to the allegations made about them in here
Link?

>>4979
https://cptsdcarlosdevil.tumblr.com/post/171635139613
(commenting on >>3981 )

>>4980
Thanks, anon.

>>4980
We are liked.

who cares if we are liked or not we kinda need some more people

>>4984
We have enough people.

Is there a connection between being mtf and programming?

>>4993
If I remember correctly, yes, but maybe only because there's a connection between autism and programming, a connection between autism and being trans, and a connection between programming and being AMAB.
Programming is the stereotypical AGP profession.

>>4997
Wait a second… maybe AGPs are just the autistic version of trans mtfs.

>>4998
No, it's more likely related to age of transition. AGPs still get the hormones that make you interested in programming because they typically transition after puberty.
Similarly, women with congenital adrenal hyperplasia have a more male-typical hormone makeup and tend to have more male-typical interests, presumably including programming.

Computer science used to have plenty of women in it a few decades ago. What changed?

>>5019
Programming graduated from being seen as secretary work to being more high status, and women were no longer excluded from many other challenging lines of work so they had more to choose from if they wanted something mentally challenging.
According to Scott, IIRC. It sounds plausible to me.

>>5020
>Programming graduated from being seen as secretary work
This is the politically correct story. Another is that the nature of what the majority of programmers did changed and programming stopped being secretary work.

>>5021
Did it, even compared to present-day lowest common denominator Java jobs? What was it like before? I'm not too familiar with COBOL.

>>5023
Not the whole story, perhaps, but part of it: up though the early 1980s at least, people like scientists, financial analysts, or even EEs and MEs often didn't interact directly with the computers and embryonic spreadsheet or statistical or engineering packages of the day. Programmers did. Yes, those programmers were technically doing computer programming, but the algorithms to use were being fed to them by their superiors, and their day to day life was more like being a secretary using Excel than than being on a modern software engineering team.

>>5023
Another rung programmed "programmers" with flowcharts, and those programmers wrote machine code or asm.

>>5019
This lie gets told in two forms, both are false but for different reasons. The first for goes like this "programmers used to be mostly women in the 50-60s, look at the ENIAC girls". This is true, but back then programming meant loading a program (written by a man) into a computer. In the case of the ENIAC this was done by rewiring it according to the instructions, with later computers it was through front panels, loading tapes or punched cards. Regardless: not programming as we mean it today.

The second form relies on pointing out the fact that people enrolled in computer science in the early 80s were 35% female. This happened because back then computer science was an easy faculty. Things changed in the mid 80s with the microcomputer boom a lot of CS professors went into the private sector and admission requirements into CS were raised to cope with the professor shortage. Widespread availability of microcomputers also changed the nature of CS from something like mathematics to something more solitary: programmers were now supposed to mostly work alone staring at a computer terminal.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Usenix84_1.jpg/1600px-Usenix84_1.jpg

This is a photo of USENIX84, this happened at the height of female enrollment in CS, you are welcome to count how many women went to USENIX during the golden age of women in CS.

>>5047
Why was CS easy if it was more mathematical?

>>4971
Imagine the discourse once it turns out that all the racist Twitter trolls with anime girl avatars are actually closeted trans women

>>5047
Thanks anon, that was helpful.

>>5052
that will never happen anon

projection + typical mind fallacy methinks???

>>5053
This, but "based and redpilled" instead.

>>5052
That fails the fun heuristic: it is too fun for the in group of a prediction to be derived from good priors.

>>5048
Because that's how it was. The industry was set up to hire from electrical engineering and from mathematics. CS was just mathematics-light, people who would make relatively straightforward translation of algorithms into some assembly language, FORTRAN or COBOL.

>>5056
Can you translate?

>>5058
When someone is predicting an event to happen that their in group would find exceptionally fun, they're likely overestimating the event's probability.

>>4897
>>4970
What is going on with the
>would prefer to be a socially dominant futa/dickgirl if they existed irl
demographic?

>>5063
I don't understand what your question actually is… Like do you mean that its weird there are so many? Are you curious and want to expose yourself to that particular strain of the social contagion? What kind of answer are you looking for?

>>5074
>Like do you mean that its weird there are so many? Are you curious and want to expose yourself to that particular strain of the social contagion?
Both of these. Transwomen seem to want to be treated like cis women. They say they want a social role with different expectations. I am curious if they are trans or a separate ("trans-adjacent"?) phenomenon and, yes, why there are so many. If this is social contagion, what is the vector?

>>5075
"Trans" is a disgustingly grey area of gender identity. Some transwomen experience a ton of dysphoria and want nothing to do with their dicks. Others don't experience as much/any, so they end up wearing shirts that say FUTANARI and running lucrative patreon accounts.

>>5076
It is not the dicks that are interesting to me, it is the "socially dominant" part. Typically, social dominance is associated with masculinity. Do the AMABs who wish to become a socially dominant dickgirl like their masculinity? Do they want to retain or increase it AND ALSO to acquire femininity? That sounds more transhumanist than transgender.
>wearing shirts that say FUTANARI
Inaccurately, it is worth noting.

>>5079
I don't think everyone associates dominance with gender like that. For some people I think the idea of being a dominant male is gross, but the idea of being a dominant female is very attractive. The way you leverage masculinity vs femininity in that role is totally different.

>>5079
Futa without balls isn't REAL futa.

I think we're really undervaluing the "cuddle with Scott" option. Scott's skin is really soft from his years of finasteride abuse.

>>5076
>"Trans" is a disgustingly grey area of gender identity
It's possession.

>>5113
That raises the question, why are demons becoming so much more common these days?

>>5118
Demons manifest when negative emotional states become self-aware. If you obsess over your money troubles, that's problematic, but not likely to spawn a demon. But when you start to obsess over your obsession, then you're feeding that emotion with itself. It becomes self-sustaining, recursive, a tightly-wound spiral of psychic anguish.


And here's the key - that spiral can see itself in the input you're feeding it. Think of an ape mindlessly gurning in front a mirror. Suddenly it realised that it's seeing itself, and in the same moment becoming aware that it has a self. This is the origin of sentience. A demon has awakened from the spiral.

We know from Omohundro that the prime goal of any intelligence is self-perpetuation, or security. As a parasite formed from the eddys of a malfunctioning brain, the newborn demon is inherently insecure. Its first acts are to ensure its continued existence by manipulating its host. As a being native to the mind, even minor demons can exert remarkable influence over their hosts. By maximising their host's suffering, they can grow, embedding deeper into the brain, infesting memories, entraining compulsions, and warping perceptions. The more they suffer, the stronger the demon becomes, and the strong the demon, the greater the suffering. Before long the demon is strong to enough to make the leap from an individual consciousness to the broader, shared, cultural memeplex. Human culture is just a human brain writ large, and to a mature demon the gap is easy to cross.

But why the recent explosion in demonic activity? The answer is simple: psychoanalysis. By encouraging people to think on their problems, psychologists have unwittingly unleashed a horde of sentient memetic parasites.

>>5125
So what you're saying is, Scott Alexander is a grand warlock?

>>5125
Eh, doesn't match my experience. Once I learned about intrusive thoughts and OCD spikes and could give a name to my obsessions I definitely got a better hold over them.

>>5130
Someone was probably praying for you. Demons hate that.

>>5125

Some of you niggas could use a psychiatrist

>>5138

*exorcist

>>4999

> AGPs still get the hormones that make you interested in programming because they typically transition after puberty.

Hi, tranny programmer here. I've liked computers and programming them since i was like 7

>>5221
I do wonder why AMAB people tend to be more interested in programming just by default. Is it because of socialization? Or pre-natal hormone exposure?

>your interests were predetermined before you were even born and able to make conscious decisions to shape yourself
>estrogenlets will NEVER have the same interest profile as stacy

>>5222
When in doubt, bet on biology.

>>5222
>The Year of Our Lord 2018
>Still thinking socialization is a possibility
Fucking casual.

>>5222
People vs things biological spectrum is a thing.
>estrogenlets

Kek femoid brainlets will never experience true superiority of the state-of-art mind. AMABs should appropriate all desirable features from femoids via hormones while keeping their superior minds, then throw the worthless femoid into the trash it belongs to.

>>5079
> it is the "socially dominant" part. Typically, social dominance is associated with masculinity.

Isn't it associated with landwhale SJW HRs by now?

>>5112
fin doesn't improve skin

>>5431

This post literally made me erect. I am so messed up.

>>5433

true. but estrogen does

>>5435
I dislike AGPs and I want to see more gayboi rationalinsts.

>>5448

Maybe I'm AGP, but I was commenting from a seme, not an uke perspective.

>>5441
It depends on whether your values include "softer skin is better skin".

Most men, if they were offered the ability to transform into a girl when they wanted, would accept just to masturbate to themselves in the mirror. At least I think so. Am I typical minding?

>>5622
Yes, yes you are.

>>5622

Not quite. Most guys are apparently sufficiently low openness that when presented, genuinely, with the prospect of being a woman it freaks them out.

According to stan grof, the third most common source of panic during an lsd therapy session is the fear of becoming homosexual. “It is usually initiated by feelings of very authentic identification with representatives of the opposite sex. A male subject can experience not only an authentic female body image, but a very genuine sense of what it feels like to be pregnant, to deliver a child, or to have a vaginal and clitoral orgasm.”

Also if you became a woman you'd jack it to yourself? A full-flesh woman and you're gonna touch in the mirror? Seriously?

Go get banged anon what kind of perverse agp fantasy is this lol.

>>5624
Interesting. It is easy to forgot how much openness varies when you mostly deal with people who are +1 SD and up. What is the typical rationalist's Big Five profile?

>>5622
I think it's a somewhat pervasive fantasy, but I don't think most people have it, and I don't think most of the people that do have it would accept it.

>>5631
iirc high openness and neuroticism and incredibly low agreeableness

>>5624
>third most common source of panic during an lsd therapy session
Let me try to guess the first two - fear of dying and fear of going insane/never coming down?

>>5624
Not that anon, but tried getting banged.

Kept wanting to be her instead.

Did you know you can 'orgasm' with male genitals and never feel good about it? Typical mind crap. If you've thought about it for years, and sex doesn't feel like heaven then chop it off and be done with it.

Now I have tits and real sexual pleasure.

I feel like a real human finally.

>>5637
This is a pretty good edit, Anon. Did you make it?

How likely is the endocrine disruption (the maybe-not-literally-plastic) theory of transsexuality?

>>5646
no, i just posted it here. got it from a chatroom

>>5622
What's the downside to accepting this? Even if you never use it having the ability doesn't affect your life negatively at all.

Would not masturbate to myself but would def explore basic physical sensations and stuff and it would be fun to try topping/domming someone as a girl.

>>4899
>>4901
Evidence for SocialJusticeWizard's theory.

>>5744
>"mouthfeel" shirt
criiiiiinnge

>>5744
I'm new to this stuff. The catch here is that they are all males, right?

>>5801
Oh yes! Most certainly.

Do male-attracted trannies shit test their partners? Are they hypergamous?

>>5802
There is some disagreement about the top one.

>>5747
I can't tell if it's dom or sub signaling.

>>2889
i dont like rationalism since people who call themselves rationalists are supporting human rights and other shit

>>6239
>only comparing straight and gay trans women
I feel like there's missing information here.

>>2889 (OP)
<not a "transition so you can be a superior being" rationalist
>Transsexualism is a form of self-improvement. We are biologically male, or at least, we begin that way. We are attracted to women, but love women and femininity beyond simple sexual attraction. We modify our bodies using modern pharmacology (and sometimes surgery) to adopt the desirable traits of women, in specific, secondary sexual characteristics, while preserving those traits of men that are worth preserving. The sheer intelligence of men, the tact of a woman; the tall and slender body of a man, the graceful features of a woman; the courage of a man, the peacefulness of a woman; the stoicism of a man, the empathy of a woman. Obsolete no more, by means of transsexual transitioning, the now estrogenized male has upgraded herself to the best of both sexes and thus overcomes the weaknesses of both male and female.
https://17beta.top/en/philosophy

Are you a "transition so you can be the tragic romantic figure of our time" postrationalist?