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Omnicidism and Similar Ideas Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 01:45:23 [Preview] No. 38916
(1/2) I believe in Omnicidism (A similar, but distinct idea is Efilism which is against creating any life, but it can lead to Omnicidism which is why I have mentioned it) which is a moral philosophy where the most ethical course of action is the instant and painless annihilation of all life in the universe with no chance of it coming back. Of course, this is impossible for now but I am arguing it as a thought experiment, not as a pragmatic idea.

I will introduce why I believe in this by starting off with my definition of suffering. Suffering is any negative experience experienced by a sentient being. It is bad because it is everything that is bad. Suffering is good only when it prevents future suffering. Otherwise, nobody enjoys suffering because it is not suffering if it is enjoyed.

Adding onto this point, I would like to introduce Negative Utilitarianism. In this ideology, not creating suffering is valued above creating happiness/pleasure. Hard Negative Utilitarianism is a concept where not creating suffering is the only thing that matters. This relates because omnicidism is against all procreation because all procreation creates suffering. The fact that most people report being happy is irrelevant because we only need to focus on not creating suffering. You are not unethical if you do not give resources to the homeless, but you are if you decide to take resources away from them. Taking someone's life is unethical, but not creating life is not unethical. The logical conclusion of this is to prevent all life from being born, and to prevent all life from being born you must kill all life so that it does not reproduce.

On that note, you may be thinking "According to your philosophy, wouldn't murder be ethical? Shouldn't everyone kill themselves then?" to which I say no to both. Murder is unethical because it inflicts grief-related suffering on those who care about the person who was murdered. Suicide also follows, being a net negative. However, this can lead to unfortunate implications to those unloved. For example, if we kill the homeless, then people would be more stressed about becoming homeless.

Another argument is that procreation is gambling with someone's life without their consent. If you forced someone to go into a room where they would have a 90% chance of winning a large sum of money but 10% chance of getting cancer, most people would be understandably upset at you gambling with their life like that. Why would life be any different? When you give life to someone, you're risking an innocent person developing suicidal depression, being kidnapped and tortured, getting an incurable disease and much more. They may still think that their life was worth living, but why would that make it okay to let someone else suffer as much as they did?

Non-existent people cannot miss or want pleasure. By bringing someone into existence, they become a slave to their instincts, fears, and desires. Wanting to live does not mean life is good, much like wanting to drink does not mean alcoholism is good.

My final argument is that life is generally a negative sum game. It may not look like it for humans, but it is very probable that most animals suffer more in their life than not. If you want a demonstration of this, compare the suffering of an animal being eaten to the pleasure an animal gets from eating it. The suffering is much greater. Not only this, but imagine being a prey animal. Mortal terror is a very common occurrence for these.


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 01:46:27 [Preview] No.38917 del
(2/2)

If you want to read more about omnicidism and similar ideas, I will post some links.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antinatalism/wiki/reading this has stuff on antinatalism which is like omnicidism but only deals with stopping human procreation. I wouldn't recommend reading through the subreddit though, it's very off-putting and reads like the ramblings of a depressed teenager. If you want actual discussion about it, try r/trueantinatalists; but still keep in mind it is reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pessimism/wiki/reading this is for philosophical pessimism which supports the idea that life sucks, and therefore fits in with omnicidism

https://www.everdeeperhonesty.com/ this is a book over 1,000 pages long that supports these ideas, however it has a 1 page tl;dr and a 40 page summary.

I am open for arguing these ideas and can be convinced against it. I hope this thread has given you some things to think about.


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 03:57:10 [Preview] No.38918 del
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Not more Anti-Natalist babies...

If you hate life so much just kill yourself, stop whinging that life didn't turn out the way you wanted it to and blaming the word for it and not accepting your own responsibility. Most people don't want to die and accept that while sometimes life is bad sometimes life is good and overall the good outweighs the bad, in order for your philosophy to hold any grain of merit you would have to see a suicide rate close to or over 50% ad even then the logical response to that would not be all life must die but how can life be made to be better.


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 05:08:30 [Preview] No.38919 del
I support this idea, tranquillity of nonexistence better than worldwide chaotic slaughter-house where we live.
But why support so edgy philosophical movements that never be popular in masses if more easy struggle for right to die, and all people like us can end ours lives painless,fast,legal methods and later go out from this shitty planet without problems like chance permanent disablement or "help" by punitive psychiatry.


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 06:49:53 [Preview] No.38927 del
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sounds like WHEMT
(voluntary human extinction program)

im for it

>most people report being happy
they fake it :)
they suffer but "just don't know why" (and they accept it because its better than idling for NPC)

i also think nothing should be changed, changing something is a crime unless you have to
it doesn't exist but id call it "readonly movement"


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 06:54:22 [Preview] No.38928 del
>>38927
or better "permanent" (as an opposite of of normie's "ephemere)


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 08:18:38 [Preview] No.38930 del
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also why do they think Ligotti is some hot shit?

ive read his book and its very mild


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 09:11:49 [Preview] No.38935 del
>>38927
>they fake it :)

Tends to be the other way around actually. People like to feel special and are often melodramatic and make their petty life seem like the centre of the world. It's why so many people get diagnosed with bollocks they don't even have, my brother spends half his time partying or down at the pub with the lads yet he apparently has social anxiety and gets welfare for it and my sister apparently has depression yet meets none of the criteria for it at all.


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 09:16:07 [Preview] No.38936 del
>>38935
most people are unhappy
your relatives are just another example

your bro needs to perform in meaningless shit just to not kys woah


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 09:31:09 [Preview] No.38937 del
>>38936
Really because they certainly don't look unhappy and I live with them, it's really quite hard to hide that and there would be no point(how dumb would you have to be to claim you are depressed and then pretend to be happy in front of your brother). More likely you are just speculating based on what you want to see the world as to justify your beliefs. After all, what evidence or theories do you actually base these assumptions on?


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 09:37:59 [Preview] No.38938 del
OP, your entire philosophy is just Platonism taken to its logical core. Everything should be perfect; right? No. Suffering isn't always a bad thing.


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 13:24:41 [Preview] No.38940 del
>>38937
>they certainly don't look unhappy
<they visit psychiatrist

classic
probably people who shoot crack are happy too in your book lmao


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 14:14:53 [Preview] No.38941 del
>>38940
As I said, people are melodramatic. They also like attention and want to feel special.


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 14:16:07 [Preview] No.38942 del
>>38933
i think OPs point is that levels of suffering are reaching Hiroshima and Nagasaki levels

theres no balance
why continue existence if your ship only receiving damage? speaking utilitarian, theres no point in doing this

what your trying to say is that some school shooting is necessary although actually it is not, these imperfections are (system) bugs just NPCs think one slavery is not better than another so whatever

i agree that suffering/imperfections cannot be eliminated however but the problem is accepted as-is, its the norm like street shitting in india, people like to live like that (indians even destroy new-built toilets)


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 15:08:25 [Preview] No.38944 del
>>38942
>>38938
its buggy in tor


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 15:10:32 [Preview] No.38945 del


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 16:57:53 [Preview] No.38954 del
Sounds immoral and satanic tbh.


Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 19:18:35 [Preview] No.38961 del
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Bernd 08/02/2020 (Sun) 22:52:22 [Preview] No.38967 del
>>38918

>If you hate life so much just kill yourself

I specifically said why suicide is not good towards the goal of Omnicidism.

>stop whinging that life didn't turn out the way you wanted it to and blaming the word for it and not accepting your own responsibility

I am not whining, I am offering a solution, albeit one that is impossible for now.

>Most people don't want to die and accept that while sometimes life is bad sometimes life is good and overall the good outweighs the bad

I have provided a counterpoint to this already. You did not counter my counterpoint.

>but how can life be made to be better.

Yes, effective altruism is something I probably should have mentioned. You can be am omnicidist and want to improve the world at the same time.

>>38919

>But why support so edgy philosophical movements that never be popular in masses if more easy struggle for right to die, and all people like us can end ours lives painless,fast,legal methods and later go out from this shitty planet without problems like chance permanent disablement or "help" by punitive psychiatry.

These types of philosophies tend to support the right to die. I did mention that I was arguing it more as a thought experiment though.

>>38927

>sounds like WHEMT
>voluntary human extinction program)

>im for it

The difference between this and VHEMT is that VHEMT is only human-focused and voluntary.

>>38938

>Everything should be perfect; right? No. Suffering isn't always a bad thing.

Why do you think it's not?

>>38954

>Sounds immoral and satanic tbh.

Not an argument.

>>38961

I can't tell what you're trying to say by posting this.


Bernd 08/03/2020 (Mon) 01:53:50 [Preview] No.38968 del
>>38967
Physical beatings = suffering = causes discipline = creates strong men = furthers the power process


Bernd 08/03/2020 (Mon) 02:52:15 [Preview] No.38969 del
>>38968
that feedback stopped working since modernity

bydlo was elevated instead of dying/suffering tremendously (from own stupidity)
now the only hope is heroin or meth



or electing drumph second time


Bernd 08/03/2020 (Mon) 03:17:09 [Preview] No.38970 del
>>38969
Translated: My mind is poisoned by industrial civilisation, and I don't want to resist industrial civilisation in any way, I want to resort to escapism or kill everyone including the people that do try resisting it.


Bernd 08/03/2020 (Mon) 03:50:57 [Preview] No.38971 del
>>38967
Well that's Omnicidism but it still holds true for everybody who doesn't follow that and most people do not. Even for Omicidism follows it still sounds like an excuse.

You are whining, the hold ideology is whining how can it not be? You offer a solution to a problem only you and people like you have because off the way your own personal lives have gone yet you try to apply it to everyone and everything regardless of how happy they are with their own lives. You are babies throwing a tantrum over a slide that hurt you because you didn't use it right and then demanding it be removed and ruining everybody else's fun.

It's a dumb counter point. So you would advocate a billionaire living the time of his life should never be born or live at all because he stubs his toe or has a bad day once? It's about balance, you can't reasonably say that everybody should die because of the fact that suffering exists when it gets counter balanced by numerous other things. If it's not counter balanced then maybe that individual should die, and that is when people kill themselves.

No you can't, you are advocating removing life, how can that be altruistic or improve anything?


Bernd 08/03/2020 (Mon) 04:42:03 [Preview] No.38974 del
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>>38971
>its bad because i don't like it

how is that even possible?
by your own logic it should be at best neutral, since this cannot be objective according to you, so it doesn't apply to you


Bernd 08/03/2020 (Mon) 05:35:16 [Preview] No.38975 del
>>38974
Who are you quoting?


Bernd 08/03/2020 (Mon) 08:52:30 [Preview] No.38977 del
>>38975
are you even german? why is your logic so flawed?


Bernd 08/03/2020 (Mon) 09:31:04 [Preview] No.38978 del
>>38977
It's not you are just an idiot.


Bernd 08/03/2020 (Mon) 12:46:27 [Preview] No.38980 del
>NPC calls someone idiot

classic


Bernd 08/03/2020 (Mon) 13:46:15 [Preview] No.38983 del
I think suffering can be very helpful and make you grow as a person


Bernd 08/03/2020 (Mon) 14:31:55 [Preview] No.38987 del
>>38980
Amazing, you are truly gifted in the ways of rhetoric and very individual and not the 'NPC' you try to attack in that post at all.


sage Bernd 08/04/2020 (Tue) 01:30:02 [Preview] No.38997 del
>>38954
It also looks like a plagiarized copy of the thread Swedebernd made here about Communitarianism >>38756



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